BJ Upton and Left-Handed Pitching
Please welcome aboard our newest site writer, mr. maniac! He's been a member here for a few years, and his writing and analysis in his recent FanPosts made him stand out. So if anyone out there wants to write for the site, keep it in mind that FanPosts are an excellent way to make your case. ~Slow
In the game of baseball, there are certain "things" (cliches, perhaps?) that are simply supposed to happen, more so than in any other sport. For example, left-handed pitchers are supposed to get left-handed hitters out quite easily. The corner infield spots are supposed to provide power. First basemen are supposed to be players whose paychecks come almost solely from their bat. Occasionally, these little sayings are violated and confusion occurs! However, for the most part, these things simply happen.
This is where B.J. Upton arrives on the scene. One of the common assumptions floating around in the sea of baseball thought is that right-handed hitters are supposed to hit left-handed pitching well. Upton had always fit this bill. That is, until 2011.
The term "potential" is often tossed around in sentences with Upton. After all, doesn't Upton have indescribable potential? And didn't he give fans a glimpse of that in his 2007 season? Unfortunately, the odds that Upton repeats his 2007 year are slim. His BABIP in 2007 was .393 -- yes, .393 as in .093 higher than what is considered normal. To put this in perspective, when Upton put a ball in play in 2007, those drives went for hits 31% more often than they should have. So while Upton is certainly a toolsy, high-potential player, he has yet to give us fans much of a reason to believe he will have a 138 wRC+ (.894 OPS) again unless he gets extremely lucky. Or is it possible BJ Upton has given us a reason to believe and we are overlooking it?
I'm sure your heads are swirling in confusion right now. After initially talked about baseball's cliches, the conversation abruptly changed to BJ Upton's overall batting numbers and his potential. The following chart should hopefully connect some dots:

wRC+ is an all-in-one offensive stat. 100 is league average, so anything above 100 is above league average and anything below 100 is below league average. wRC+ is also park adjusted. For more on this stat, click this link.
So what do we make of this madness?
2007
In 2007, BJ Upton was very lucky as shown by his unsustainable .393 BABIP. However, when looking deeper, it appears that most of Upton's luck was coming against RHP as evidenced by his .414 (!) BABIP against them. So in reality, BJ Upton was better against LHP than against RHP, if luck was factored out. This makes sense as right-handed hitters generally hit left-handed pitchers better than they hit right-handed pitchers.
2008
In 2008, Upton had a pretty normal year when it came to splits. He actually hit RHP fairly well and he continued to hit LHP. The numbers here appear to be fine.
2009
It makes sense to ignore (or not concentrate on) 2009 because it was a dreadful year overall for BJ, and a year in which he struggled from the shoulder surgery he had in the previous offseason. When looking at the numbers, 2009 was a wasted year for Upton.
2010
In 2010, Upton returned to form, once again hitting LHP better than RHP. He had his worst year yet against RHP, struggling particularily against their fastballs.
2011
Now here is the strange year. Upton progressed immensely against RHP (from 2010's form). However, he really struggled against left-handed pitchers, which is odd given his career trends and the simple fact that he is a right-handed hitter.
So why did BJ Upton struggle against LHP in 2011? A quick look at BABIP shows that the luck dragons didn't interfere with Upton's season(.283 BABIP against LHP). However, his power numbers show another story.

The numbers displayed above are vs. LHP.
The answer to BJ Upton's struggles against LHP in 2011 are now obvious: he wasn't hitting for power against LHP in 2011. Sure, his batting average dipped, but his power was the main component that turned south. It seems fair to conclude that Upton just wasn't driving the ball versus LHP.
Quickly glancing at the numbers can give the impression that Upton never hit for power against LHP. It is crucial though to remember that 2009 was just an awful year because of injuries and that Upton physically couldn't hit for much power in 2008 because his shoulder was bothering him. BJ himself said,
"If I could swing the way I wanted to, there would be less doubles and more homers," Upton said. "A lot of my doubles have been off the wall or they one-hop the wall. If I could have really put a full swing into it, I think the story would be a little different."
Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to conclude why BJ Upton wasn't hitting the ball with authority against LHP in 2011. Is it possible that a look at his strikeout and walk rates could point towards an obvious conclusion?
The chart displays several interesting points. In 2011, Upton's strikeout and walk rates versus lefties didn't catapult like his ISO did. Instead, they remained near par with 2010, the year in which he excelled versus lefties. This is definitely a positive sign, as his 2011 versus lefties looks like it was just an off year and thus very fluky. With this in mind, I believe it is fair to conclude that BJ Upton should return to form against lefties next year and bat well against them because while his ISO declined severely, he maintained his BB% and his K%.
Upton's Potential
Having now explored Upton's season against LHP, let's switch gears: Can Upton repeat his 2007 year? Given his incredibly high BABIP in 2007, it seems impossible. However, the next two graphs add an interesting twist...
In terms on wRC+, BB%, K%,and ISO, Upton did improve versus rightes in 2011 compared to 2010. The tricky part is finding out if 2011's wRC+ matches up with his BB%, K%, and ISO, all of which are more indicative of future performance.
His 2011 ISO, BB%, and K% were (combined) the second best of his career. His BB% and K% were pretty close to 2009's numbers, but his ISO (power) was much higher in 2011. Therefore, it seems that his wRC+ should have been north of 2009's 95 figure. 2007's wRC+ was fueled by the very high BABIP and his BB% and K% were actually better in 2011. And while his BB% and K% were both far inferior to 2008's numbers, his power in 2011 helps make up the difference. All the numbers seem to indicate that Upton's 2011 hitting campaign versus righties was similar to 2008's and thus probably sustainable. If Upton can maintain his BB%, K%, and ISO next year, his wRC+ should hopefully be around 112, a very strong number for BJ.
So what to be make of this? If Upton returns to form against LHP and hits RHP in a similar fashion as his 2011 numbers, he could be in for his best year yet. In fact, if he performs to those levels (let's say 140 wRC+ versus LHP and 112 wRC+ versus RHP), his wRC+ should be around 123. With Upton's defense and baserunning, that makes him a 5.2 or so WAR player, a top 25 player in all of major league baseball!
And here is the Cliff Notes section, since my thoughts were extremely sporadic and difficult to follow....
1. BJ Upton's wRC+ was poor against lefties last year, but it appears he should return to form next year. His power (ISO) appears to be the main culprit, and since there was no injury, it seems like it wasa one year occurence.
2. BJ Upton improved against RHP last year. These gains were evident in every offensive catergory listed.
3. If BJ Upton returns to form against lefties and maintains his hitting against RHP, he should have his best year yet.
4. It is extremely unlikely Upton will ever hit the way he did in 2007. Even with the improved numbers versus right handed pitchers, his overall numbers don't compare to 2007's.
4. BJ Upton is a crazy player to understand. He goes through hot and cold streaks, he can't seem to decide whether he is going to hit better at home or on the road, his baserunning is up and down, etc...... Because of these things, I would bet against Upton having a 5 WAR year next year. On paper it makes perfect sense, but Upton isn't a player to perform in a sensible manner. It would just be un-Upton like. Which would be normal, just not normal for BJ (confused?).
I'd like to take a quick moment to thank Steve for letting me become a writer here at DRaysBay. I plan to focus on everything from statistical analysis to minor league reports (and everything in between). Once again, I'd like to give Steve a big thanks!
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Comments
Good work, maniac!
Man, where is that breakout year from Upton? This is the year to do it, if it will ever happen.
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
I actually almost added that to my post.
joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:
"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong
Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."
Classic.
by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 30, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Or 2007 and 2011 were both outliers in opposite directions and in no way predictive.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Oh and welcome abroat
†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Yes...I don't think you're disagreeing with the gist of the post.
It looks like we know basically what to expect from Upton vs. RHPs, but the lefties angle is really interesting…he’s bounced up and down over the past couple seasons. I think you could make the case that versus lefties, 2009 was an outlier in a bad direction, 2010 was an outlier in a positive direction, and then 2011 was….well, what? Lower than I’d expect at least.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
It takes 2,200 PAs against lefties to safely know even half of the platoon skill that a RHB possesses. He's essentially half way there over his career in which he has proven to be around 18% better than average
I put more stock in the aggregate than less than 200 PAs on a seasonal basis.
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What are you arguing?
Career numbers:
.352 wOBA vs. L
.327 wOBA vs. R
Even when you regress, Upton will still show an overall better ability against lefties. In that context, I’m not sure what’s so radical about expecting him to do better against lefties next season than he did in ’11.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think it's silly to break it down season to season, sure it's easy to make a point, but the samples are so small as to be virtually meaningless
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
So method as opposed to substance?
Fair enough…that makes sense and it’s good feedback. It just came across as though you were disputing his overall point and conclusion.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Well I don't really understand the point
I think fans get caught up too much in whether a guy will have a better or worse season than less year. It’s convenient because it’s easy to remember last year, but I’m more concerned with whether a player appears as if he’s going to be better than his career based on peripheral, incremental improvements rather than noise to signal being around a 3 by 3.
Do we think that B.J. will be a better or worse player next year than he has been in his career and why? You can’t trendspot using season to season data, but I think a talented analyst can parse out variables that show improvement or declination that signal whether a player is truly getting better or worse.
Instead of looking at the results which require larger samples, look at the indicators like Swing%, O-Swing%, SwStr%, K%, BB%, etc… I hope I don’t come across as picking nits, because I did like this look a lot, I just don’t feel like it gave any definitive conclusions. This is something I’ve been accused of in the past, so hopefully it just comes across as the constructive critique that it is intended to be.
†††If you love Jesus Chris and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!†††
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty good feedback here
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by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting. I guess I just don't see it.
I felt maniac did basically what Sandy is suggesting…parse out the signal from the noise. He may have spent too much time on the noise (and detracted from his point), but it’s not like he was looking at HR totals and extrapolating randomness:
1. BJ Upton’s wRC+ was poor against lefties last year, but it appears he should return to form next year. His power (ISO) appears to be the main culprit, and since there was no injury, it seems like it was a one year occurence.
2. BJ Upton improved against RHP last year. These gains were evident in every offensive catergory listed.
3. If BJ Upton returns to form against lefties and maintains his hitting against RHP, he should have his best year yet.
He looked at indicators like BB% and K%, and I think made a good point that Upton has seemed to improve vs. RHPs recently. His K rate dropped against them last year and his power increased, both of which are positive improvements and within the realm of “signal”. Even if you regress him back to his career average vs. RHP, he showed some skill improvement.
And as for Upton vs LHP, he again tried to parse out the “why” behind Upton’s fluctuating performance and see if there was anything to be learned there…BB%, K%, ISO, Babip. You could dig even deeper with it if you wanted, but I do think he spelled out why it looks like 2011 was an outlier.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
But judging from the feedback, guessing something got lost in translation.
I liked the thought process and analysis behind this…if I was going to pick nits, it’d be on hammering in on the important stats, making his points clearer, and pointing out the large picture like Sandy suggested. More of a presentation thing than anything.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
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by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Like Sandy said, we all have been guilty of this.
BJ is on of the toughest players to project with his inury history and probably more importantly an inconsistent noisy swing. He seems very prone to hot/cold streaks. I’m wondering if that holds true to the eye test.
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by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
It was a good read
I think Mr. Maniac saw that it was a bit sporadic and added the Cliff Notes. One year sample sizes against LHP just don’t mean much as Sandy correctly pointed out. Its tempting to try to identify trends, but looking at the career body will give you a much better idea.
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by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, agree with all this.
I just think if maniac had included his career L/R splits (or even his regressed splits) in the beginning, we’d be looking at this differently…as a good piece that dug into the data and tried to find some underlying reasons why Upton may/may not improve. His way of making his point could have been improved, but it was still a good, accurate point and he dug beyond just the surface.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
In the conclusion, I pointed towards career and not year to year trend.
That is how I got the 140 figure. My point wasn’t trying to find a trend so much as to show he was weak against LHP last year and that it should improve based off his career numbers. His 2009 and 2007 season’s screwed it up quite a bit, which is why I went season to season.
bj the bust
Time to trade this pouting malcontent. Bigest bust since Elijah Dukes. Truly wasted talent. Put Jennings in Center and Guyer in Left. Addition by subtraction. Tired of watching him strike out, especially the infamous called 3rd one he is notorious for with his classic follow up hissy fits.
by Buglooseontherug on Jan 30, 2012 11:37 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
This site is here to analyze player performance, not to demonize players and speculate about their clubhouse demeanor.
Upton is lazy/malcontent/yadda yadda is bannable, so just keep away from that.
It’s natural to be frustrated with Upton, but there’s a reason the Rays are holding onto him for this year…they’re a better team with him than without, and he’s one of the most valuable players on the team due to his power and defense.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Never go full r...never mind.
…and Upton.
by Passionate Apathy on Jan 30, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
...and Upton
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Jan 30, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Buglooseontherug: he liked to burn his bridges before he came to them.
R.I.P. (1953-2012)
@ptSuttery
Purely a suggestion
I like the Cliff’s Notes version along with the thought process, but I think it might be better to put the summary at the start of the article. Putting your conclusions at the beginning is more likely to hook someone into finding out how you reached those conclusions. Otherwise a reader may not even get to the summary if they find the process “extremely sporadic” and give up.
That's Montgomery Clift, honey
I'll think about it.
When I wrote my projections post, several friends/relatives all agreed that they like the final section as they are not really “saber nerds.” So the end section was designed to put the conclusions found in the post in simple terms. I feel if I included them at the beginning of the post, then it would give away at the "secrets’ lying within the post.
I’ll think about it for sure. Can anyone else chime in on this?
I figured that was the purpose of it, and I like it
But I feel like someone who isn’t normally inclined to advanced statistics could get more out of the process if they know ahead of time where it’s headed. Otherwise it might just be a wall of numbers.
Or, like I said, they might never even read the summary because they don’t get past the wall of numbers and just move on.
And those that are into advanced stats are probably going to read it no matter the order.
That's Montgomery Clift, honey
Evolution
Put the cliff notes first because:
- Those who got to the cliff notes as is would read it anyway.
- Some of those who didn’t get to the end would read it because they want to see how you derived the conclusions. In other words, offer people an incentive to invest their time by conveying the “pay off”.
- The rest may feel comfortable commenting on the summary, and if they don’t, well they didn’t read it anyway.
Net effect: added participants.
I really enjoyed it. Great insight into one of my favorite players.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 31, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
Hey you're that guy that everyone hates at LL, bienvenuto
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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 31, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
fantastic work mr. maniac!
I was looking at BJ’s splits just yesterday and thinking, “what the heck!” – so this was very timely for what I’ve been pondering! The drop against LHP still has me wondering. Was he merely focusing on hitting RHPs and letting the LHP fall to the wayside?
I would love to see Bossman reach 5 WAR, and I believe the front office thinks he can as well. We’ve held on to the former first rounder for so long, it’s show time for Upton. This is a nicely reasoned argument to support that idea.
welcome to the staff, mr. maniac
Well deserved. Congrats.
Sad news folks :(
MLBTR reporting that Pat Burrell will officially retire.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
I gave up on expecting BJ to be an MVP caliber player years ago.
I’ve kind of just come to accept what he is; Gold Glove caliber defender with power and speed. He’s going to hit for low average and strike out a lot. There is still value in what he brings though.
So you wrote him off at the ripe old age of 24?
He still may become that superstar everyone expected. Some players just take more time.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Great work by the way and well deserved.
He’s not Gold Glove caliber at the moment but some day I think he could be. One day he will learn how to charge the ball and throw to the correct base and or hit the cut off man.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
I do think BJ's defense is much better than UZR gives him credit
which may be an artifact of how Maddon positions his OFers.
by AndrewTorrez on Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. He does everything except hit for average.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
...and Upton.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
This crusade is weird to me.
I get why you would write that average isn’t the end-all, but having the ability to hit for a high average is a good thing. Pretending it doesn’t exist seems like a disservice to analysis.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Batting average is an extremely convoluted stat that doesn't tell us anything that OBP doesn't
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
What's the skill? Getting on base (OBP does better)? Advancing baserunners (SLG does better)?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
The skill is hitting balls that go for hits.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I believe it also served as a proxy for contact rate before we had pitch-by-pitch data available.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
What? Wouldn't K Rate have served as a far better proxy for contact rate?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say it was the best proxy, I said I believe people used it as a proxy, and still do.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
So because people used to use it for something suboptimal, it still has value?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
WAR gets misused all the time, but you used it yesterday, didn't you?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
To measure how many hits a player got in his at-bats.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
At bats ignores walks, errors, and sacrifices
Hits+RBOE/PA would be a more accurate way to calculate what you’re referring to than (H/PA-RBOE-Sacrifices-BB)
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yes but that's not a reason to argue for using WAR
You’re saying that people used to use BA to measure contact, so BA is useful. That’s an invalid argument, just as arguing that people misuse WAR so it should be used is an invalid argument.
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
So use a statistic that arbitrarily ignores errors to measure that? Why?
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
You can't really completely ignore Batting Average.
We have better measures of evaluating a talent and it’s not as useful as it was for 120 years but it still tells us something.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
It still tells us the percentage of times a batter gets a hit vs plate appearances.
We have better measures now but it’s not useless. I use OBP also.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
well, it's actually the % of time a person gets a hit out of at bats which are merely a set of outcomes that aren't really their total plate appearances.
Yes AB's , my bad.
I still think Batting Average has “some” value. Just not much.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
It tells it versus at bats, a highly arbitrary measure
H+RBOE/PA would at least have some value, but avg, not so much
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
maybe you should just sit this one out, Nolan.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Pudding Ron doesn't even care to spell your name correctly
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
stuff it gillass
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
gillasscave
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
if i do end up in the FBB league i'll somehow incorporate it into my team's name
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
I'm sure you'll make it into one of the leagues
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get the extremist nature involved..
I know all about batting average’s pitfalls, and I do not use to value players, but I can see the value in knowing the number when analyzing a player. You can have two players with the same OBP and SLG who get their numbers in different ways. You could look at their BB%, HBP%, XBH%, etc. or glance at their BA and do the mental math in your head. To me, the latter is quicker.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
The difference between a .301/.412/.547 and .338/.410/.548 is 4 points of wOBA (the former is lower, so a higher BA is better)
And yet a .306/.361/.510 slash and .285/.356/.510 slash have the same wOBA (so a lower BA is better). Batting average doesn’t consistently tell you the quality of two players with the same OBP and SLG, the makeup of 2B/3B/HRs is what is telling
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
You're telling me things I wrote about years ago.
I’m well aware that BA isn’t the end all and I’m well aware that the same OBP/SLG don’t provide the same value. I’m telling you that I still use average because there is value in knowing whether a guy is a .300/.350/.500 guy or a .250/.350/.500 guy. I don’t understand why you would willingly dump information because it gets misused by others.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
But a .300/.350/.500 guy doesn't necessarily have a higher wOBA than a .250/.350/.500 guy
Compare Aramis Ramirez and Corey Hart
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Where did I say he did?
I find value in the complexion of the player’s wOBA. That’s the point I’m making.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Ah okay
Regardless, an extremist stance is an easy way to get people to question what value BA has, rather than a mediocre stance, which might lead people to still use it when convenient for their analysis
by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Extremism is almost always a great idea
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
if you don't think extremism is always a great idea you should definitely ban yourself
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
I'm not sure that's correct at all.
I was writing about how BA is overrated on this site before you were ever around and it took 50 replies form me for you to understand that I know all about how wOBA works.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 30, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
This is very true but if Upton could be a .270 hitter opposed to a .240 hitter and kept everything else the same.
He would be an All-Star.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
that's a rec
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Disaffected scion of the Tampa Bay sports community.
It’s that wad of chew in his cheek. Messes with his equilibrium, yo.
@ptSuttery
MLB Network "Shredder"
MLB Shredder does not include Upton on their top 10 centerfielders for some reason. It is obviously his hitting, but I do no believe there are 10 better center fielders than Upton in the major leagues. He has to be among the very best defensively. Definitely going back on the ball and and to the side. Coming in, not so much. Nobody better in those situations
The Shredder left him off but Byrnes and Sheehan both included him at number 9.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Sheehan is pretty well respected and certainly uses advanced metrics.
Upton to me is better than Torres and Byrd which the Shredder included.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ah yeah the Shredder seems flawed
I’ll take Byrnes and Sheehan’s opinion over the Shredder.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed he was. and Eric Byrnes was pretty open with his disagreement.
by Peter Piontek on Jan 30, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
So was chris young
Kind of redundant. More power but less speed and defense.
by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 30, 2012 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1.4 the last two years running via Fangraphs.
If you culled it over the last three years, he’s probably top 10. I don’t know if he’s elite or not — certainly the front office seems to believe so. His numbers might look better if he wasn’t played so shallow and we don’t know what impact (positive or negative) Maddon’s defensive shifts have on his numbers.
@ptSuttery
Wouldn't having plus defenders on either side of Upton negatively impact his zoning metrics?
I have no idea by how much but wouldn’t it seem like having rangy players on either side of him hurt those ratings simply because he has to make fewer plays in left/right center?
by Vin on Jan 30, 2012 3:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
ugh, more comments hidden? really?
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
We don't get to choose the world we live in.
@ptSuttery
by Suttree on Jan 30, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i just thought we were past this.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Meh, it's moderators debating the merits of glass' banhammer.
It’s not exactly the Gestapo.
@ptSuttery
please don't run a muck with this subthread, fellas
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
It was FreeZo hiding his own comment
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
This
The comment stood, the internal discussion on modding was never intended for public consumption
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
HEATH BAYWOOD HAS NEVER SEEN THE DARK KNIGHT
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
neither has heath ledger
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Jan 30, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs

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