The Rays Tank: David Price's Cutter, Jake Hager's Work Ethic, And Baseball In England

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 30, 2012 9:02 AM EST in The Rays Tank

MLB Chatter

Bud Selig wants to add in an extra Wild Card in 2012. What do you think: too soon, or should he wait until after realignment? I could go either way. I don't see the big deal about getting the system going this upcoming season, but if the Rays are sitting in the Wild Card lead late in the year, I may feel differently about that.
I've generally assumed that Prince Fielder's contract was a massive overpay, but as Tom Tango spells out, it's not as bad a deal as you may think. If you look at comparable players to Fielder and how they have produced over the later half of their careers, it's not that bad. Unless, of course, you look a bit harder at that Cecil Fielder comp...
They play baseball in England? Apparently. Craig Robinson (the Flip Flop Flyball guy) recently interviewed the head of Great Britain Baseball, and it seems like the growth of the sport over there is an uphill battle.
If you haven't made a habit of reading David Laurila's interviews over at FanGraphs, I recommend you start. He has one with Lonnie Chisenhall (Indians infielder) up now, and they spend time talking about hitting approach. I always find it interesting to hear players get a little bit more in-depth when talking about the sport.

Rays Talk

Lucas Apostoleris is one of the Pitch F/x guru's still floating around on the interwebs, and he posted an article last Friday about David Price's cutter. In particular, he looks at how Price uses his cutter and where he locates it. It appears Price normally uses the pitch against right-handed hitters, and he tends to use it to pound the outside part of the plate ("backdoor cutter").
John Gregg posted an article on prospect Jake Hager over at Rays Digest this weekend, featuring some good quotes from Hager. He seems like yet another Rays prospect with a great work ethic.
The Rays sent the players at their Development Camp to see a Lightning game, but then made them all leave after two periods so they could be back by 10? I see the Rays are already trying to get their prospects used to playing in Tampa Bay...

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As far as Price throwing the cutter...

Not a big fan of the backdoor cutter, other then as an occasional 2 strike pitch looking for called 3rd strike. The pitch is much more valuable busting righties in on their hands. Of course, if you don’t execute that pitch it can be a dangerous one…

by td32 on Jan 30, 2012 9:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions

See: Shields, James (2010)

Use the force, Lueke

Writer of novels that have nothing to do with baseball

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by nomoredevil on Jan 30, 2012 9:34 AM EST up reply actions

Yup...

The problem with a cutter is it is a feast or famine pitch. if thrown well, it is very difficult to hit. When it is thrown poorly, it flattens out and is extremely hittable. IMO, the best time for a cutter is in a fastball count, because the hitter is aggressively looking for a fb. Well, you give him a fb, and at the last moment is “cuts”, missing his barrel and sawing him off. It’s a great pitch to have a batter put in play weakly.

by td32 on Jan 30, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

Does your opinion change at all when it's in front of or behind a 97 MPH fastball in on the batter's hands? Being able to stack it with the fastball means it doesn't have to be as fine

Sure it still might get turned around once in a while, but he can get away with a lot more.

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

Every pitch you throw is more difficult to hit when you can throw 97mph...

A flat cutter is an easily hit pitch, similar to a hanging slider. The problem with throwing it backdoor is that it is more difficult to “get around it” and get it to move much. If you get around it too much, it breaks over the heart of the plate.
If you bust a righty in(from LHP) you dont need to be as fine with it. If you miss inside, it was a good purpose pitch making the hitter move his hands. Also, it makes your inside fastball better because the hitter now has cutter in the back of his mind, so a pitcher can freeze a batter on a well located inside fb.
Having said that, you are correct, when a pitcher has a better fb, he gets away with more mistakes.

by td32 on Jan 30, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions

Good points, thanks

I’d prefer that if he’s going to miss that he keeps it off the plate away. I like the idea that it gives the batter something else to think about and maybe get them leaning out a little more so that the inside corner is even more effective. You’re right that when he misses over the plate it’s probably his easiest to hit pitch, but I think there’s an optimum point where it makes a lot of sense to throw it. That number is probably more like 10-15% than 25-30%, but I get seriously frustrated when I see a guy throw one pitch 70+% of the time without any variation. If he’s comfortable throwing a back door cutter instead of the slider then I’m just glad to see a twist to keep batters honest and make the four-seamer look even better.

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions

Does Lueke throw a backdoor cutter anymore?

Follow @RealNolenBailey

by Hatfield on Jan 30, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

lolz

Use the force, Lueke

Writer of novels that have nothing to do with baseball

Follow @kingofchapter1

by nomoredevil on Jan 30, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions

Anyone see Cafardo's article yesterday where he lists teams 1-30?

He has the Rays at #10 just ahead of the Indians, but behind the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox, Tigers and Rangers

Now everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but when a big reason for the somewhat low rating was the clubhouse chemistry lost with Johnny Damon, i question the author’s bias and agenda

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 30, 2012 9:38 AM EST reply actions 3 recs

sounds worthless, maybe bleacher report should aggressively recruit him

"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 30, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions

i'm a huge Hager fan.

by rglass44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:48 AM EST reply actions

I'm a Nautica fan myself

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 30, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

SF1 is all set to be the first guest on Rglass

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions

rglass's fashion podcast

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by FreeZorilla on Jan 30, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions

guarantee sf1 rocks the above the knee shorts.

by rglass44 on Jan 30, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

I need to know what to wear for summer

If you like free speech, come to OTTOTD.com

by Warde on Jan 30, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions

it isn't even february yet...

by rglass44 on Jan 30, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions

Buy off season for big savings!

If you like free speech, come to OTTOTD.com

by Warde on Jan 30, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions

Hager is Horrible

Wizard of Id is where it’s at

Use the force, Lueke

Writer of novels that have nothing to do with baseball

Follow @kingofchapter1

by nomoredevil on Jan 30, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Gotta good feeling this will be the week we see a trade

bringing a catcher. I really like Hundley from the Pads and Topkin states he’s a trade chip for them

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 30, 2012 10:07 AM EST reply actions

I like Hanigan better but I guess he's not available

What do you think of Geovany Soto?

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 30, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

I have Hundley above Soto, but I still like the idea

joeybw, on why he was banned for half a day:

"Might of been grammar I keep getting that "would have" thing wrong

Not on purpose, mods, wish it was….."

Classic.

by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 30, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

Soto pros/cons

Pros
- Apparently, rates highly for pitch framing and blocking
- Highest offensive potential; 875 OPS type.

Cons
- Had shoulder surgery on his throwing arm last September but supposed to be minor
- More expensive and 1 year less of team control
- Should require more in trade (my impression)

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 30, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions

I really like him

but is someone who’s living off of his name more than performance. Crushes lefties. Against RHP is a different story. Has a very Pena-esque BA vs RHP. He has shown the ability to have a solid OBP vs RHP, but SSS. Adds another above average bat vs LHP, and solid defensive skills, and compared to what the Rays have put behind home plate recently, even Soto’s numbers vs RHP would still be just fine.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 30, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions

Hundley looks nice

essentially a better version of shoppach with a higher contact rate (pre rays) and thus lower k%. Other than that, rates look very similar. The biggest anomaly is home/road splits, but the opposite of what you would think. He crushes the ball at petco.

I would still take soto or hundley

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 30, 2012 2:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Hows Blanks or Guzman against LHP?

Perhaps we could get Hundley and Blanks for Davis and Colome

by RaysOfHope on Jan 30, 2012 11:32 AM EST via mobile reply actions

I think the MLB lineup is set except for C or perhaps SS

I’d settle for prospects, hopefully a boatload of them.

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 30, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

Long-term 1B solution please

Right now best option is probably Matt Adams, but he doesn’t thrill me

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 30, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions

Im suprised (hint) that someone hasnt written a story yet about the possibility of trading for a catcher and who might best fit

Assuming Tompkins isn’t talking out of his ass, there might be something to his speculation that the rays could look to trade for a catcher. He mentions guys like Soto, Hundley, and Suzuki, but are there any other guys out there that could be had?

Some names off the top of my head: Torrealba, Conger, Ramos, Perez, Rosario, Flores, Hanigan.

Not all of these catchers are availible but I think its at least worth the discussion.

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 30, 2012 3:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions

in one man's opinion

I rate the likelihood of a deal in this order: Rosario/Hundley/Soto/Suzuki/Hanigan. I don’t have much to go on, other than the fact that the Rockies could use SP, Davis would fit well in the friendly confines of Petco, and Theo’s rebuilding in Chicago and Soto is one of the bigger trade pieces he has that he might be willing to move. Suzuki because Beane moves everyone (although I hope they’d eat some coin in the deal), and Hanigan is probably more of a wish than a reality at this point.

That being said, I think I’d be very happy if any of these potential deals happened, although happier with some over others.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 30, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions

Im still waiting for Collette to tell us who the Betemit of catchers is

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 30, 2012 5:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

There is an argument for and against each one

I think the rockies view rosario as the heir in 2013. He hasnt had one ab in AAA and that walk rate scares me. Davis has flyball tendencies while Niemann gb% has been getting better every year, plus they have been linked to him in the past. I do really like rosario’s arm though.

Like you said, Soto is a lot of hype and inconsistent. Career worst k% and contact rate are a concern and his bb% was second worst of career. Who knows if surgery last year played a role. Like you mentioned, much better against lhp but not horrible against same hand. Maybe that would be a good thing with a lineup that could be more vulnerable against lhp.

Lastly, Hundley has grown on me. pretty much shoppach with higher contact and less strike outs.

It would be cool to see the higher powers break a couple of these guys down.

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 30, 2012 6:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

Padres have two catchers who have both dealt with injuries.

Hundley has yet to play an entire season and Baker(whom they traded for this winter) is still coming off Tommy John surgery. They probably like both going into the season but have to be concerned with how they will hold up. Which makes a deal for Hundley iffy. I think they would be interested in Davis(as a fly ball pitcher in Petco) but they may need a Lobaton/Chirinos in return as well to replace him(and they would probably still need to sign a veteran FA catcher).

Trading Davis and a catcher for Hundley would not be enough and maybe AF could get another player like RH’ed hitters Guzman(1st base/3rd/DH) or Blanks(LF’er/1st base/DH), who are now both back-ups, in a deal as well..or a decent prospect.

by budman3 on Jan 31, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions

Bye Rugs

Marc Topkin

OF Justin Ruggiano to decline outright assignment to AAA from #Rays, become a free agent. Was DFA’d last week

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 30, 2012 5:02 PM EST reply actions

Meh

by Vin on Jan 30, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

I love em so much:

#Rays Longoria, in @MLBNetwork interview, on his contract: "I can honestly say that I’ve never regretted doing it.’’

by Vin on Jan 30, 2012 6:02 PM EST reply actions

I heard Lueke says the same thing

Use the force, Lueke

Writer of novels that have nothing to do with baseball

Follow @kingofchapter1

by nomoredevil on Jan 30, 2012 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Flagged for being awful.

by Vin on Jan 30, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions

Even though he doesn't owe us anything, I really hope when it comes to extending that he gives a discount/the Rays don't cheap out

That’s one player I’d like to see a career Ray.

by benderbrodriguez on Jan 30, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions

i'm imagining by that time the financial situation for the team is brighter.

by rglass44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions

LOL

Follow @RealNolenBailey

by Hatfield on Jan 30, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions

Three words:

New TV Deal

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 30, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions

Three more words

Viva Las Vegas

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by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 30, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions

something's got to give.

by rglass44 on Jan 30, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions

I used to play baseball in the UK

enjoyed it but there’s absolutely no appetite for it over here. The club I played for folded. We were considered to have one of the better fields in the league because we had a back stop, dug outs and a few bleechers…before the game a few of us would go out and put up the outfield fence.

Follow me on Twitter @OneTonneBaby

by OneTonneBaby on Jan 31, 2012 3:59 AM EST via Android app reply actions

I couldnt stand the obsession with soccer when I was living in europe

Similarly, I used to play some cricket in hs during lunch and few ppl seemed really interested.

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 31, 2012 4:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Cricket is awesome

I love watching the 1-day test matches (or whatever they’re called) on TV and see the players have lunch break and eat meals and drink tea in the middle of the field.

Hey whatever happened to those two Indian cricketers the Pirates signed a while back?

by Ben Tumbling on Jan 31, 2012 5:35 AM EST up reply actions