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Is Johnny Damon Worth Re-Signing

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The Rays have two gaping holes in their current roster. One is at the first base position and the other is at the designated hitter role.

Most who know me know that I hate a full-time designated hitter. I think it is a waste of a roster spot unless that hitter is posting at least a wRC+ of 130 or higher. I would rather reserve the designated hitter role (I do not consider it a position), especially for a team that plays half of its games on turf, as a revolving door to give the players a rest.

Johnny Damon was the full-time designated hitter for the 2011 Rays and he posted a .261/.328/.416 line with a wOBA of .328 and wRC+ of 109. He was an above-average hitter and stole 19 bases but it was an underwhelming performance and one we did not expect from Damon who has not posted an OBP that low since 2001 when he posted a .324 OBP with the Oakland A's.

To me, it looked like Damon was pressing for the first 4+ months of the season, trying his hardest to put the ball in play and get that much closer to 3000 hits. His line from the start of the season to August 28th was .263/.313/.407 and he had a mere 33 unintentional walks in 535 plate appearances. That is a far cry from a player who had five consecutive seasons of walk rates at 10% or higher and came off of a career high 11.3% walk rate in 2010.

Star-divide

Damon's out-of-zone swing rate was 31.3% last year, eclipsing his career worst rate of 28.6% from the prior season and making his career mark of 21.6% look like an aberration. Not coincidentally his swinging-strike rate was a career worst at 8.1%, raising his career mark to only 6.0%. To be quite honest, the last person I wanted to see at the plate was Johnny Damon because he seemed to be reaching and hacking at pitches.

But, in a small sample size from August 29th until the end of the year Damon hit .250/.384/.477 with 17 unintentional walks in only 112 plate appearances. Was this just small sample size fate rearing its ugly head or was this Damon re-finding his approach and patience?

I honestly cannot answer that last question. There really are not a lot of viable options out there outside of dumpster diving and Damon, whether you place value in it or not, was a great clubhouse leader and perfect fit with the group of guys on the team.

At first glance I really did not want Damon back as a full-time designated hitter with the 2012 Rays but, after a longer look, if the Damon who surfaced in late August is the real Damon I would have no problem re-signing him to a one-year deal.

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Comments

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It's very possible Damon was having a bad year.

And that he just needed to calm down. I loved watching Damon in September, he really stepped up. I haven’t looked at numbers, but if he can replicate that patience, I would consider his “clubhouse presence” valuable

by d.russ on Jan 6, 2012 10:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I'd be more than happy

to have Damon back in a Rays uniform in 2012.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 6, 2012 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

Wouldn't have said this during the season, but me too.

Maybe I’m just an optimist, but I think what we got last year was Damon’s floor, and many of the other options out there will have a lower floor. The rest of this team is talented enough that I’m loathe to risk it, and if Damon can bounce back, we’ll be sitting pretty.

by Whelk on Jan 6, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I definitely never said it during the season.

I was ready to move on then I saw his 15.2% walk rate from August 29th and on and he hit 5 of his 16 HR and stol 7 of his 19 bases from that point on. I kept looking at his overall numbers and got tired of him chasing pitches that I was ready to say bye and let him chase 3000 hits elsewhere if it meant lacking the discipline he showed from the start of the season.

by jcmitchell on Jan 6, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I think a lot of people, including AF, would be

But it has to be at the right price. $5.25 mil is not exorbitantly high but honestly for this team it is a lot of $$$. Yes, I realize he was worth about a million more than that last year in WAR, but this is not a team that can afford to pay free agents to perform “up to expectations.” We would be better served pumping that money into an extension, paying for a player acquired from a trade, etc. We operate on flex spending plans. So we would need to be a little smarter with our money.

Damon should be expected to contribute anywhere from 0.5 (further regress) to 2.5 (great year) WAR. For that, the Rays should pay according to the 25% percentile of his WAR expectation range and thus around $2 – $3 MM. Then it’s worth it.

by elijah.dukes on Jan 6, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

As per the Gecko

Any Damon contract longer than one year would surely put Geico back as a Rays sponsor.

"I couldn't have done it without my players." - Casey Stengel

by bumbry on Jan 7, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldnt be massively opposed BUT

For me, his age may be a factor. Declining numbers at his age flags up warning signals.

Follow me on Twitter @OneTonneBaby

by OneTonneBaby on Jan 6, 2012 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

I would love Damon back. I know this will be attacked by the saber community but

Johnny Damon is a winner. Joe loves him at the plate and in the dugout and i’d love to see someone like Johnny get his 3000th hit as a Ray instead of the self promoting Wade Boggs

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 6, 2012 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

Eh, Damon is a decent option if there's nothing else better out there.

Which there possibly won’t be. He’ll come cheap and he’s a fan favorite, so I wouldn’t have a problem with resigning him…he’s just not nearly my first choice for our DH spot and I hope it doesn’t come to that. He’d likely end up being a 1 WAR player at DH, which certainly isn’t ideal.

My hope is that the Rays trade for a young first baseman, which would then give them enough flexibility to not need to sign a full-time DH. Not sure if that’s going to happen, though, so we’ll see.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 6, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions  

That would be ideal but wasn't Damon was worth 1.5 fWAR last year? And he possibly re-found his discipline late in the year.

There just aren’t any options out there although I would love Branyan on the team in any capacity. The guy can actually play some good defense at 1B too.

by jcmitchell on Jan 6, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not as confident in the SSS thing.

Maybe he found his plate discipline again in August, but the fact is he’s getting old and it wouldn’t be unheard of for his discipline to slip. I prefer taking the season as a whole, because that’s what Damon is right now — a bit of the good and the bad. I see it bouncing up maybe a bit, but I’m just not confident it’ll go back up to his career norm.

At least, that’s my thought…you never know.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.

by Steve Slowinski on Jan 6, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Completely understood.

I usually take that same stance but the big difference struck me differently. I don’t know, maybe it’s my lack of trust in other options out there and optimisitc view but I hope it’s not a SSS thing.

by jcmitchell on Jan 6, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

How does somone like Rizzo mean the Rays don’t need a DH? At least one of those two spots needs to be filled with a bat that can produce in 2012, right? Just don’t totally understand your thought process, but I’m probably missing something.

Raystime1998

by Michael Duncan on Jan 6, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it means the Rays could use the DH as a revolving door to keep players fresh, especially on long roadtrips and long homestands on turf.

It would allow Maddon to DH Joyce and play and OF of Fuld, Jennings, Upton against RHP or play Guyer in RF and DH Canzler against LHP.

by jcmitchell on Jan 6, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Like option

Revolving door works Fuld, Guyer and Canzler into more playing time and allow resources to go after a more attractive option at 1B. Have moved toward this option. That being said, Damon has is a winner who has contributed. True professional with a veteran presence that can’t be underestimated.

Believe in the Fuld

by RayJzone on Jan 6, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

one doesn't prohibit the other

Actually, acquiring a young 1B makes it easier for the Rays to take on a full-time DH, because they can rotate others to that position for a day off and allow their bench a game to start in the OF or INF. Positional flexibility and the emergence of another awesome outfielder in Jennings makes it easier for the Rays to not need positional flexibility from a DH. It would be nice if he can make a spot start somewhere, but not necessary.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

The Rays are set up to cover nearly any injury on the team

Guyer can step in for an OF injury. SP and RP injuries can be covered by awesome depth in AAA. Chirinos can step in for a C injury. The only major issue is INF, which explains why the Rays are interested in Eric Chavez to be the next Willy Aybar/Dan Johnson, etc. It also explains the Rays interest in Ryan Theriot whether mlb or milb deal. It’s also why it’s nice that Beckham is in AAA. Friedman always loves depth and injury insurance, and with the right small move or two, the Rays could have the best depth of any team in baseball.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Keep him unless we find someone clearly superior

and make him eat a pay cut. He wants those 3,000 hits. Sign him for one year plus a team option. Two more seasons and he’ll have the number. Joe likes having him too.

by Professor Twain on Jan 6, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Our lil joey is everywhere From MLBTR he writes
I really don’t mind resigning Damon for DH, 1B is where Friedman needs to show his awesome side, the side of him that signed Moore to a long term cheap deal last month. Not the side of him that signed Rodney.

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 6, 2012 12:44 PM EST reply actions  

it's crazy that someone would read both DRB and MLBTR, right!?!?

what’s crazier is you feel the need to post the same things on both sites.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

pick your poison

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

I'll take Damon

And don’t view it as poison.

There is nothing negative about having Johnny Damon as a member of your organization.

Could the Rays do better at DH via trade or a Luke Scott rather than him? Certainly. But bringing him back certainly does not bring negative strings attached to it.

by MrNegative1 on Jan 6, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That graph makes it tempting to just drink poison

Damon’s okay but he’s plan b or plan c, I’d hope.

by Barnacles on Jan 6, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

if he's plan b and beltran was plan a

Haven’t heard anything about the Rays being interested in Luke Scott…

We’ll see what AF comes up with.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes please

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

nope - he's a Cub now

for Cashner & another guy

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

As of when?

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

2 minutes ago

RT @fantasy411: #Cubs today acquired Anthony Rizzo and RHP Zach Cates from #Padres for right-handed pitcher Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh jesus christ

When do we get pissed off at Friedman for not getting involved in one of these?

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I claim collusion on part of CHI

#crazyconspiracytheories

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 6, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I just got there

I came up with excuses for him not taking the Reds deal then I figured with Quentin that he must not want to DH but how AF doesn’t make a better offer than this is beyond me.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Quentin is fragile and 09-11 was meh

Cashner for Rizzo? Rays have a few guys better than Cashner or a combination of players better.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

His season high in IP is 111.1

Yup, this will work out for San Diego

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 6, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

his appendix void was flaring up

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

while i'm upset that we weren't in on this, i just have to wonder HOW we weren't. i'm not ready to blame Friedman yet.

but I am waiting for AndrewTorrez to come blasting in here losing his shit saying how worthless our FO is.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

awful, awful trade for the Pads.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

They did Hoyer a solid

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Next stop

Blame the stadium

I put the screw IN THE TUNA!

by Transplanted on Jan 6, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Pick a pair to be in the lineup:

Kotchman and Damon or Pena and Guyer?

This meme definitely has a shelf life to it

by Jason Collette on Dec 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST upreplyactions

So do you.

BOOM. ROASTED!

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST upreply Rec Flag

by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 6, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

The 2nd one

We need more runs and there is definatley more HR’s with Pena and Guyer. Maybe even decent contact from Guyer.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That's what I'm thinking, too.

We were OK with Damon and Kotch last year, but, can we expect the same? There isn’t any sure thing about Pena and Guyer either, but I’d still rather go that way next year. Add Rizzo to the mix and he can be the starting 1B next year…

This meme definitely has a shelf life to it

by Jason Collette on Dec 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST upreplyactions

So do you.

BOOM. ROASTED!

by SandalsNoPants on Dec 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST upreply Rec Flag

by sc_monsta1015 on Jan 6, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

We still have Josh The Iron Horse Sale

We’re good!

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So you're cool starting Canzler at 1B?

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

goldstein has cashner between 3 and 4 * prospects baez and wellington with this comment:
Cashner has looked good stuff-wise in his return from injuries, but he’s likely bullpen-only at this point, and his command is far from all the way back.

by rglass44 on Jan 6, 2012 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

As I said on Twitter

This says more about Rizzo’s value than Cashner’s.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm going with this

Rizzo played badly but that was less than 200 AB’s and it was Petco. His value should be higher than this.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

The deals lately

Which by the way all seem to involve the Padres are making us look a little too patient.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

but it’s hard to evaluate that until we see the Rays return. Only then can you compare and see whether or not the Rays were too patient on deals for the likes of Quentin, Rizzo, etc.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Except now there are fewer ML-ready bats on the market.

Alonso, Rizzo, Quentin, all gone.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Rizzo was ML-ready?

What had he done to show that at ML level?

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hit .331/.404/.652 in AAA?

Which even if you adjust it to a .315/.385/.590 line going from PCL to IL…

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

46 K's in 153 ML PAs

Even then, KG had Rizzo ranked 6th in the Padres organization.

I like Rizzo, but there are flaws there with his defense and hitting lefties. We don’t know what AF offered and what the Padres thought of what was offered. Maybe they valued Cashner over a Archer because he had MLB experience & like the body type. Who knows

I'm not a fanboy, I'm an awesome dude

by Jason Collette on Jan 6, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He was also one of the youngest players in the league.

Fine, maybe he needs another half-season in triple-A. Opinion unchanged.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

And the market still is not bare

Carlos Pena, Andy LaRoche, Luke Scott, Mark Trumbo, Daniel Murphy/Lucas Duda, etc. There still are options…and even more, less options for them to go. The Rays will end up with at least an above-average 1B and/or above-average DH for 2012. Book it.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Andew Friedman is the GM version of Scott Boras

Patience, patience, patience

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 6, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

THIS

and just like Borass, Friedman always makes other GMs look stupid in the end.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Like when he made the push for Cliff Lee in 2010 and propelled us back to the WS

Oh wait that was the Rangers

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

self owned

:(

He’s been patient enough. Make a move before Canzler and Miranda are platooning at 1B.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not questioning the moves of a GM who turns pennies into gold

and has the Rays in the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. Of course it sucks seemingly always second fiddle in major deals—but the odds always are the Rays are not going to win those major deals because they won’t give up as many prospects as other teams or pay as much as other teams. That’s just the way it is.

The only way the Rays survive is through under-the-radar moves. And it’s a joke to question a guy for not getting a player who hasn’t done dick in the majors yet. Rizzo could end up being awesome. And he could end up a bust. It’ll take some time to see whether or not Friedman should have stepped up on that one.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The only way the Rays survive is through under-the-radar moves.

Disagree. I’m not saying Jason Bay wins us the WS in 2008, but who knows? And he was great in 2009 so if we weren’t contending we could’ve traded him. Already mentioned Cliff Lee in 2010.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Cliff Lee cost Justin Smoak, which was a steep price at the time.

It was definitely worth it, don’t get me wrong. But the Rays never make that big move, because if it doesn’t work, it limits their bloodline. Rays fans have been spoiled by the top tier talent that has been coming out of the Rays system nearly every year. But the Rays cannot afford to lose Hellickson, Moore, Jennings, etc. Rather they need those cheap long-term deals.

It’s ridiculous to criticize a team for not getting Cliff Lee. And for the record, the Rays thought they had landed Bay.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly what? What's the downside to acquiring Cliff Lee?

We don’t win the WS and we’ve traded 2 prospects, but we get more picks. If you acquire and develop talent, it doesn’t matter. Sure didn’t decimate Texas’ farm system.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Relevance?

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Rangers are not as reliant on their farm system as the Rays are

Rays try to use their farm system to be competitive 8 out of 10 years…instead of burning through it, causing them to be competitive 4 or 5 years out of 10. Some would rather more emphasis made on “going for it” and sacrificing potential years for WS. A valid philosophy. Just not one the Rays use, when it comes to prospects. Money, with limitations, yes (see Soriano, Rafael), but not prospects.

Bottom line, if Rangers wanted to, they could sign Prince Fielder to be their 1B. But they chose to spend over 100 million dollars on Darvish. This gives them 2 near 100 million dollar deals in back-to-back years. Comparing the Rangers, who can dip into free agency and sacrifice prospects, to the Rays is comparing apples and oranges.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh no, the horror! That would mean our 2010 rotation was Price-Shields-Garza-Davis-Niemann

So basically, not any worse. And our 2011 rotation would be Price-Shields-Moore-Etc/etc with Matt Garza to trade

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

what do you want me to say?

This team is run to based off the fact that the playoffs are a crapshoot, so the more times you make it the more likely you are to win the WS. Your advocating trading 6 years of very good performance for a half season because you think it may help us win the WS. its short sighted. if you want a team that is run that way, there’s one just up the turnpike.

by rglass44 on Jan 6, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

the best part:

smoak failing justifies the trade in your eyes yet your pissing yourself because we didnt target a guy who is much more likely to fail.

by rglass44 on Jan 6, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

As a 22-year-old in the PCL, Smoak hit .244/.363/.360

As a 21-year-old in the PCL, Rizzo hit .331/.404/.652

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

SSS. Rizzo K'd more and had more pro experience.

In 2009 (after he was drafted) Smoak was rated 23, and in 2010 he was rated 13 by BA. Rizzo was 75 prior to this year, and I doubt he moves in to the top 15 with concerns about the hitch in his swing.

by rglass44 on Jan 6, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Rays have been so quiet and annoyingly patient

This is where we BAM “Ike Davis traded to Rays” and my dream ends there…

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

It's a nightmare

Except when we extended Moore, that was a good day.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

even joey is doubting himself
Yeah, I’m the idiot.

Matt Moore. That is all.
by joeybw on Jan 6

follow me on twitter @sternfan10

by sternfan1 on Jan 6, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

their, their, now, Hatefield.

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Triple blocked

Poor Jorge Cantu.

"I couldn't have done it without my players." - Casey Stengel

by bumbry on Jan 7, 2012 1:51 AM EST up reply actions  

huzzah!

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 7, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

It is but then we're doing it against next year

Rizzo provides, at least theoretically, stability.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

long term solutions are always the ideal

but if Friedman can pull it off every year, then I’m not concerned. Friedman got 2.8 WAR and a .351 wOBA for 800k at 1B. This ended up being nearly break-even from 2010, when Pena posted a 3 WAR, .374 wOBA. It rattles our nerves more, but somehow, someway, Friedman has an excellent track record at getting results…to the point that all of the non-moves doesn’t even bother me a bit. And it won’t, just as long as Friedman continues to pull rabbits out of his hat, or wherever he pulls it from.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

And pretty damn lucky

Vroom vroom party starter
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by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

but with Friedman’s track record, I’d rather have his luck, than someone else’s skill.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

"but with Beane’s track record, I’d rather have his luck, than someone else’s skill."

~ A’sfaninminnesota, January 2007

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

until it does happen, you can't say anything

3 playoff appearances in 4 seasons. And according to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Rays have a damn good chance of making it 4 out of 5, irregardless of upgrades at DH and 1B.

Please help me understand…what about this, exactly, are you complaining about?

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

We need runs

We lost the 2011 ALDS even though we outscored the Rangers by 5 runs. That is great pitching but we kept losing by 1 or 2 runs after taking them apart in game 1. Now sure you can try Guyer in RF and Joyce at DH but there is no one anywhere on this team that I want playing 1B.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

the Rays have always been built for the marathon season and not the short series sprint

To get the type of players the Rays ideally need cost too much. The Rays best chance for post-season success will not come from these moves. It’ll be the continued progression of Longoria, Joyce, Upton, and Zobrist.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, we need cheap guys both in money and prospects

We just let one go. Rizzo could of added to our core. I think he will be great, he’s out of Petco and it doesn’t hurt to not be known as the guy “who was traded for Adrian Gonzalez” Traded for Cashner? Where’s the pressure there?

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

this frustration I understand

Especially for a team that is void of advanced bats in the high minors. But maybe the Rays were not sold on him. Maybe they couldn’t ignore his flaws. Who knows. But I’m not writing off this off-season until I see the full picture.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

luck runs out

And the hard part is how quiet the Rays keep things but all we know is their big acquisitions of this off season have been Molina and Rodney. Oh, not to forget Badenhop.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

off-season not over

Hasn’t this site posted tons of articles about how Friedman makes the majority of these moves this month? And now, just 6 days in, the fanbase is starting to panic? Go bore yourself with some NBA, NFL playoffs and come back in a couple weeks and then by spring training you’ll see the bigger picture.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Rays deals come out of no where

I remember how dead the off season was last year (on offense anyway) then all the sudden we signed Damon and Manny the same night. I have no idea if the Rays have already made a deal, are close on a deal or still far off from anything.

Don’t sleep on Adams from the Cards, Craig is probably going to be the long term 1B there and Adams is a beast.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

My point is, Friedman always finds a way. And you can keep saying that until the year happens when he doesn’t. But there is no evidence that can be given yet that points otherwise. There are still plenty of options remaining that still give the Rays an upgrade at 1B and DH.

by raysfaninminnesota on Jan 6, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

A chess master once said words to the effect of:

If you can’t come up with an idea, make stalling-type moves — your opponent will invariably come up with an idea and it’ll usually be a bad one.

by raiseHell on Jan 6, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

So they traded him for a RP
Corey Brock of MLB.com reports that the Padres plan to use new acquisition Andrew Cashner as a setup man for Huston Street initially, with a move to the rotation possibly coming later.

Rizzo was traded for a SU man who MIGHT start eventually….

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

Face, meet palm

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Jan 6, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Friedman loves his guys a little too much

“We’’ give you Davis for Rizzo”
“Alright, seems fair”
“Nah, actually, we can only give Archer for Rizzo”
“Yeah that works”
" You know what, the best we can do at this point is Lobstein"
“Yeah um, we’re going with the Cubs offer”

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

lol joey so funny n tru thts prolly wut happnd!

"I don't always post off-topic, but when I do, I post at http://ottotd.com" - $tinky $tu
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"

by pudieron89 on Jan 6, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Daniel Murphy or Casey Kotchman

Pick one.

Hopefully, we wont have to because that has to be the back up to the back to the back up plan.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:20 PM EST reply actions  

Hoyer is already saying Rizzo will spend 2012 in Triple A

Hey, look at that, Theo didn’t lie LaHair will be their 2012 1B. Damnit, Marlins, I was counting on you going for Garza and trading these damn Cubs Gaby Sanchez.

Matt Moore. That is all.

by joeybw on Jan 6, 2012 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Would be a Friedman type of mood.

Good arm in the corner OF’s and a return to decent(not great splits) as a hitter. Don’t like the KO’s though.

by budman3 on Jan 7, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Once again we move too slowly

Jorge Cantu signed a minor league deal with the Angels.

"I couldn't have done it without my players." - Casey Stengel

by bumbry on Jan 7, 2012 1:47 AM EST reply actions  

Has anyone thought about Fukodome or Guerrero ?

His Bill James projections are similar to Damon:

Damon: 62 wRC / .332 wOBA
Fukudome: 63 wRC / .327 wOBA
Guerrero: 68 wRC / .345 wOBA

by David Fung on Jan 9, 2012 1:54 AM EST reply actions  

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