The Rays Tank: Spring Training Is Here!
Finally! The long, cold winter is over! Well, not really, but even if it may still be mid-February, we at least know that down in Port Charlotte, the Tampa Bay Rays have started Spring Training. Today is truly a glorious day.
There aren't any pictures in the queue yet from the Rays' camp --- C'MON GETTY, GET ON IT! -- but we'll be sure to post some later today as they become available. There's not much else we can do at this point beyond looking at photos of ST and oo-ing and ahh-ing at baseballs being thrown around, but for me, that's enough right now.
Other news and notes this morning:
- How was Fan Fest? I'm interested to hear people's thoughts. It always seems like a great time, even though I can never go.
- The Pirates and Yankees finally completed their rumored Burnett trade on Friday, leaving the Yankees open to sign Raul Ibanez this morning. Neither development is unexpected, but I don't like the idea of Ibanez's power in Yankee Stadium. That's not going to be particularly fun to face.
- Tim Wakefield retired on Friday, inspiring Joe Poz to pen a lengthy blog post on him (and knuckleballers in general). I love knucklers, which is likely the main reason I overpaid for R.A. Dickey in a fantasy draft last night.
- Kevin Goldstein released his top 20 prospects list for the Rays, and he seems a little more pessimistic on the system than others. Although pessimistic isn't the exact right word -- he has tempered expectations about the system once you look behind Matt Moore. I can't necessarily disagree with his logic, but I suppose I have a large amount of faith (possibly too much faith) in the Rays' player development program. They have plenty of players with a number of tools, so even though their are question marks everywhere, I really like the system's depth right now.
Also, Goldstein envisions Brandon Guyer as a fourth outfielder, and I don't know if I can get behind that. - This is another BPro post behind a paywall, but R.J. Anderson previewed the AL East with Jason Collette. It's a fun read and I definitely recommend it if you have a BPro subscription.
- Brian Cashman shared some thoughts about the Wild Card this weekend, and in the course of advocating the new Wild Card system, he dropped a subtle dig at the Rays: "We conceded the division two years ago cause of the previous setup. [...] I'm not taking away from Tampa Bay's eastern division title, but we didn't try to win the division."
Okay, calling that a "dig" is too strong. It's true, isn't it? We all knew that the Yanks were trying to get ready for the playoffs, and honestly, the same can be said of the Rays. Both teams glided into the playoffs without any real effort, and neither team seemed to actively want to win the division. So in my mind, this doesn't cheapen the 2010 division crown, and it is yet another reason to change the Wild Card format.
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The epherma bit on Alex Torres on the BP list is fascinating
Had no idea his bases empty/runners on splits were that drastic
YES! I love this time of year
Wait, what do you mean there are no games yet?
grumblegrumblegrumble
Use the force, Lueke
They don't even work out today
I learned this yesterday when I went to the Astros camp on my way to the airport only to learn that they weren’t scheduled to work out until today :(
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
More ST pics please
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 8:49 AM EST via mobile reply actions
FanFest was really a nice time, 2nd year for me.
For any fan of the game, do yourself a favor and when attending a Rays game this season, make time to see the Ted Williams hitters museum. I was blown away at how many exhibits they had and how state of the art it was. Allow at least 90 min
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Ready
I am looking forward to the first MLB.TV Rays ST game way too much. I really wish I could have visited during ST this year.
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
Here is a Fan Fest Photo Gallery
I took several hundred pictures. Some of them are garbage and there are some repeat shots, but I also got some really good photos too.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Awesome. A few things:
1. Is Molina pushing 300 lbs?
2. Does Briggy look chunky to anyone else? Just a bad angle?
3. I don’t get to watch the games, so I don’t always know what everyone looks like, but I usually recognize guys in pictures from the internet and whatnot, but who is the guy with the tattooed arm?
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I only saw Briggy sitting down.
But I agree that his face looks chunky. Maybe it is camera angle, but he looked like that to naked eye as well.
Guy with tattooed arm is Matt Mangini.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
That would explain it.
Was he involved in the Jaso deal? Minor league FA?
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Minor league free agent.
Josh Lueke was player in Jaso deal.
"I don't believe in just being out there and just grinding away. Let's do it intelligently, let's do it quickly, let's get it done. And then move on." ----Joe Maddon
Yes, I knew that.
I saw he played for the Mariners and thought maybe he was shoved into the trade through the back door or something, along with Lueke.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
RIM SHOT!
(Lueke is the gift that keeps on giving)
Use the force, Lueke
by nomoredevil on Feb 20, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'd love to see the Rays now swoop up one of the few RH bats left in an Ibanez type deal or
even a minor league type—Vladdy or Maggs
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I don't want either of those guys, but I'd like to see a bat added as well
I’d rather have Manny and watch him sit the first 1/3 of the season than watch either of those guys try to stay healthy.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Maggs has said he will retire rather than take a minor league deal
I wouldn’t count on him
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
So good.
Fuld is just too like-able. It’s not fair.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Feb 20, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Quoting Win Expectancy and all.
If had thrown in a Nate Silver reference I’d buy his jersey and his book—whenever he writes one.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, if he ever publishes a book, I'm definitely snagging that.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Feb 20, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't be happier that he's gotten a chance with the Rays.
His willingness to use his fame from that hot run to raise awareness about diabetes speaks to his character.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for passing that along, still get tingles thinking about Longo's 3R homer, DanJo's dinger, the walk off, love Sam talking about playing through that injury
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
On my plane from ATL to Wichita yesterday, had a Sox fan sitting across the aisle from me
Pulled up the game 162 video and left it at an angle so he could see what I was looking at
Felt good
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
You're the worst kind of fan
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
"...who log more hours at work than a first-year investment banker at Goldman Sachs."
This made me laugh.
Use the force, Lueke
by nomoredevil on Feb 20, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Nice knowing you, Wade
“I’m a starter,” he said. “I don’t see any reason for me to be in the bullpen. I understand they’ve got to do certain things, but we’ll see. … I definitely want to be a starter and stay a starter forever. And that’ll be my mentality.”
wow.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
It's good that he wants to fight and improve a ton from last year and all.
…But hopefully he started wrapping his mind around a bullpen role in the coming weeks. Because his odds of making the rotation have got to be pretty slim.
I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow
by Steve Slowinski on Feb 20, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Luckily Niemann will be hurt by May so it's not like it would be a permanent move
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure if he's told to go to the pen he'll do it. He can pout, but he'll do it
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
He wouldn't have a choice.
Davis said there haven’t been any conversations — yet, anyway — with anyone from the Rays about possibly ending up in the bullpen. And if he is sent that way, he might end up approaching them, though he wouldn’t have much leverage to force a trade.
“If it ever did come to that, it’s something we’d talk about then,” he said.
Topkin kind of puts words in his mouth here. He never mentions anything about a “trade” but Topkin makes it seems like he did. Bad journalism imo
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I just think it's dumb on his part because he already has his guaranteed deal.
It’s not like he’s arb-eligible where he needs the innings to boost his value. He gets paid the same no matter what so it would be nice if he’d just say something along the lines of I’m willing to do whatever it takes to help the team win. Once his contract is up then he’ll still be able to go out and get another deal, perhaps with a resume of being a very good high-leverage reliever under his belt.
If he was still year to year I might be more sympathetic, but he’s already getting paid now and in the future.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. His quote wasn't ideal but if you just read the quote alone it doesn't sound so bad
"I’m a starter, I don’t see any reason for me to be in the bullpen. I understand they’ve got to do certain things, but we’ll see. … I definitely want to be a starter and stay a starter forever. And that’ll be my mentality. If it ever did come to that, it’s something we’d talk about then"
I don’t want to defend Wade here. But I feel that Topkins surrounding text makes it sound worse than it is.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
You can definitely read that as him showing backbone and saying that he's going to work hard in spring training to prove that, but
my thing is why do you even have to come out and say that? Were you not going to work as hard before if the spot was guaranteed?
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that it wasn't the best thing to say
but to act like he might “ask for a trade” is crossing the line imo
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Is there a way to stop being a member of a site on here?
I know I did it with Lookout Landing before, but I can’t figure it out for Bleed Cubbies Blue.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions
What did you do to that poor man?
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Posting this one for Glass's sake:
13. Jake Hager, SS: Thirty-second overall pick is a crazy athlete, capable of staying at shortstop and hitting a bit.
first time i've heard him described as an "athlete."
that makes me think he’s toolsier than i had previously expected.
That stuck out to me, too.
I’d heard the last two bits.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
yup
the bex write-up was silly. “he improved a ton, but i still dont like him as much as when he went 1-1.”
The baserunning instincts part is interesting.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Not as interesting as this:
JC: They’ve added more arms to the staff, but it was a lot of quantity and little quality. The best move they made was the internal promotion of Jim Johnson to the closer role and the cheap addition of Wilson Betemit.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
SCC gonna be rootin' for WB against Rays pitching every AB.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
TB pitching*
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
I'm naming all of my fantasy teams the Sissy Cucks this year
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going with Lueke's Backdoor Sliders
®
Use the force, Lueke
by nomoredevil on Feb 20, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm a fan of good moves
I’m happy the Yankees took Ibanez over Betemit
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Ibanez will hit 20 bombs in that park
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
yeah. i dont really get it.
everyone talks about how much they thought he improved this year, but it seems like they dont believe that could continue. he just played his age 21 season.
Seems like he's grading in as average or better across the board.
Good sign given where we were 12 months ago. More work to do, but he’s on his way.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Mahtook and Vettleson got dinged for the same things as Beckham.
Good all over just isn’t as sexy as great at one tool.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I would guess it produces fewer stars, but perhaps more regulars than the guys with a great tool.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
It depends on which tool is great
All tools are great, but some are greater than others
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Can't top the grit & scrapiness tool
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Bustin O'Conner agrees
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Or you could stop being a horse's ass and realize that there isn't a blanket approach across the board because these are human beings not automatons.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
You, like the Rays offense, just need to be more consistent
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
wait, what? one comment ago you said "there isnt a blanket approach across the board" and now one comment later i need to be more "consistent?"
Gawd you're so easy
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno, I think people would rally around 80-hit tools instead.
If it’s a big guy, you assume the power will come—it doesn’t always, of course. Small guys, well, you usually aren’t expecting much power to begin with.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
No idea how we could test this without digging through years of BA reports.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah. very labor intensive. thats why i wish BA et al would hire a data intern to track things like this.
have their analysts grade out prospects and keep track. the problem is not only the work, but it would force them to be more accountable as well.
It's too late RJ
He’s a bust, if you’re a 21yo SS who went 1-1, you should be an MVP candidate already! #irrationaldemands
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair.
He isn’t even universally considered a top 100 prospect. It’s pretty easy to see why he has gotten the “bust” label
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
He's a disappointment rather than a bust
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it is unfair to say he's disappointed us a bit
Not that he can’t be good or anything, just that he’s not wow’d us
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
im just hesitant to calla guy a disappointment until he's fulfilled his commitment to the team (either out of baseball or signed a FA contract or traded).
To some
it doesn’t appear you’ll consider Beckham a disappointment until you’ve slept with him. :)
I mean that in the kindest possible way.
I do agree he’s been maligned more than deserved. But I also think you sometimes carry the ARL thing a bit farther than it’s legs should carry it.
Fact is he continues to move up and isn’t regressing in the process, which it seems has turned the opinion trend in the opposite direction.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 21, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
Last year was a good sign
but he has been a disappointment overall compared to expectations.
That doesn’t mean he still won’t be a useful player. Hell it doesn’t even mean he can’t be a great player.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
If he is a useful player at the ML level
then he isn’t a bust.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I agree with this.
He should have some sort of role for a number of years in MLB and accumulate a positive amount of WAR.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
You have to remember the guy playing too
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
He's a good question
Can MAtt Bush de-bust himself as a reliever?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I say yes.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
No the Padres picked him
That pick was a complete bust
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Here are the number one picks who played the field via B-Ref WAR:
Tm Player Pos WAR G WAR/150
Twins Joe Mauer (minors) C 40.3 918 6.58
Mariners Alex Rodriguez (minors) SS 104.6 2402 6.53
Braves Chipper Jones (minors) SS 82.7 2387 5.2
Devil Rays Josh Hamilton (minors) OF 20.2 589 5.14
Mariners Ken Griffey (minors) OF 78.6 2671 4.41
Marlins Adrian Gonzalez (minors) 1B 28.2 1017 4.16
Mets Darryl Strawberry (minors) OF 42.9 1583 4.07
Braves Bob Horner (minors) 3B 21 1020 3.09
Diamondbacks Justin Upton (minors) SS 11.5 581 2.97
Yankees Ron Blomberg (minors) 1B 8.7 461 2.83
Angels Darin Erstad (minors) OF 27.8 1654 2.52
Athletics Rick Monday (minors) OF 32.7 1986 2.47
Brewers B.J. Surhoff (minors) SS 34.4 2313 2.23
White Sox Harold Baines (minors) 1B 37 2830 1.96
Astros Phil Nevin (minors) 3B 15.9 1217 1.96
Pirates Jeff King (minors) SS 14.7 1201 1.84
Phillies Pat Burrell (minors) 3B 18.7 1640 1.71
Senators Jeff Burroughs (minors) OF 17.2 1689 1.53
Padres Mike Ivie (minors) C 7.2 857 1.26
Cubs Shawon Dunston (minors) SS 10 1814 0.83
Padres Bill Almon (minors) SS 2.7 1236 0.33
Mets Tim Foli (minors) SS 1.2 1696 0.11
Devil Rays Delmon Young (minors) OF -0.2 729 -0.04
Padres Dave Roberts (minors) 3B -0.7 709 -0.15
Mets Shawn Abner (minors) OF -1.3 392 -0.5
Angels Danny Goodwin (minors) C -1.4 252 -0.83
White Sox Danny Goodwin (minors) C -1.4 252 -0.83
Mariners Al Chambers (minors) OF -0.7 57 -1.84
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Granted, it's a career look, but only seven players had career WAR/150 games over four wins.
So despite the aspirations you aren’t always getting a superstar player at number one.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a quick way to translate this to fWAR?
Probably not, but I thought I’d ask.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
That's okay.
I shouldn’t be so lazy.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
put them both in excel.
take all the 1-1s and all the career wars. then do a vlookup on the 1-1 names to pull the fWAR.
yup. i think he's seriously hurt by the fact that he was one of the few players to go 1-1 that wasnt a consensus pick.
Or the our C situation would be locked down if only we took Posey.
I still think he’s going to be more productive than the average #1 overall.
The first comment was sarcastic.
Just wanted to clarify.
And that he can stick at C
Depends on his true bat
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Would the Rays have taught him to get out of the way if he doesn't have the ball in his glove?
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
Or he was hurt by lukewarm feelings right off the bat that never changed because first impressions last a lifetime
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if coming right before Strasburg and Harper and right after Price hurt.
It’s like Andrew Bogut. Good player, but came after LeBron James and Dwight Howard—and in the same class as Chris Paul and Deron Williams—so you don’t think of him as being a good number one guy, but I bet he stacks up well career wise to some of the other jokers.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Price has turned out fine, but I'm surprise more people don't wonder what if with Wieters.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wieters is at least trending the right way
He is probably the best C in the AL now
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Kinda hoping Matusz puts it back together.
Liked him a lot as a pitcher. I know, division rival, whatever. Baseball is better with more good players.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
But the O's gunned down the Sox.
I have a hard time crapping on them at the moment.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I don't expect superstar
but I do expect solid everyday player with the #1 pick
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Are you happy with what Beej has done as a #2 pick? How about Niemann at #4
How about Delmon as a #1? I think you have to expect Beckham to be somewhere between Niemann and Beej and that’s a pretty good place
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Delmon at 1, 2003 was not a kind draft year
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'm happy with Beej. Niemann is fine.
Glad we unloaded DY.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
This should be everyone
Though Niemann over Weaver is a little disappointing
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Weaver and Drew had signability questions, hence why they slipped.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
CURSE YOU SCOTT BORAS
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Upton's at 3.06/150
Niemann’s at about 1.50/30
So an average to slightly above average player. I don’t think that’s unrealistic for Beckham. He might even top that.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
B-Ref really hates Upton's 2006.
FG and BP combined don’t have it as low as B-Ref.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
What's Mike Cameron's per 150?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
That Upton vs Cameron comp is really shaping up
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Niemann has been worth around 4.9 WAR averaging FG and B-Ref over let's say the first three years of his deal
if he gets another 5ish WAR over the last three of his team control then we’ll say he’s worth 10 WAR over 6 years. I think any draft pick that does this, regardless of draft position, is a useful player. Obviously, you’d like a guy to do more than that with an early pick, but it’s not like Zobrist was a high pick and he’s been one of the best players in the league the last three years. I think people shouldn’t have such high expectations for high picks and should be happy when their team gets a fantastic player anywhere in the draft, because they’re rare.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
7 out of 29 becoming HOF level players is pretty high
at least in my opinion.
Justin Upton is an outstanding player and he isn’t even at 3 WAR/150 at this point.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
And for pitchers over 30 starts:
Tm Player Pos WAR ? G WAR/30
Nationals Stephen Strasburg (minors) RHP 2.1 17 3.71
Devil Rays David Price (minors) LHP 10.4 94 3.32
Orioles Ben McDonald (minors) RHP 19.8 211 2.82
Padres Andy Benes (minors) RHP 29.6 405 2.19
Twins Tim Belcher (minors) RHP 24.6 394 1.87
Astros Floyd Bannister (minors) LHP 24.1 431 1.68
Mariners Mike Moore (minors) RHP 24.9 451 1.66
Pirates Kris Benson (minors) RHP 11 208 1.59
Royals Luke Hochevar (minors) RHP 1.1 100 0.33
Rangers David Clyde (minors) LHP 0.4 85 0.14
Mets Paul Wilson (minors) RHP 0.5 171 0.09
Tigers Matt Anderson (minors) RHP -1.4 257 -0.16
Pirates Bryan Bullington (minors) RHP -0.4 26 -0.46
Again not ideal, but it shows you how awful most of these guys have been.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
28 players here (only included the guys who reached the majors) so it works out to tiers of seven.
This is ranked by WAR/150 rather than raw WAR, so Blomberg is over Surhoff, etc.. I think I’d take Surhoff instead, but maybe that’s just me.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Not really worth worrying about perceptions.
If he doesn’t become a superstar, so what? As long as he can help a winning ballclub that’s the important thing. It’s not ideal to land the third or fourth best player in the top-10 at number one, but I think everyone can understand why they chose him, and as long as he doesn’t mess up by being lazy or irresponsible off the field, then I’d like to think people will be okay with what happens.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Just to clarify this comment
I’m not saying Beckham is a bust. I’m just saying to the casual fan it’s easy to see why they would think that way.
I did call Beckham a bust before this year. He proved me wrong and had a strong year. I hope he can follow it up with another one.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Correct.
I like what I’m hearing this off-season though
Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com
by Imperialism32 on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
With hard slotting will this even matter?
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Furthermore, what's to stop a team from drafting a ton of overslot guys and just signing one that depletes their entire cap and takes 9 other guys out of the talent pool for other teams
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
If you don't sign the player then his cap value is erased.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
.
Notably, if you don’t sign one of your picks in the first 10 rounds, you can’t spend that money on other picks. You lose that allotment from your signing allowance. Also, any bonus for more than $100,000 for a pick after the 10th round also counts as part of a team’s signing allowance.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Well that's good, seems like they're really lining things up to allow draft pick trading
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Of course this should help:
Baseball will also add a lottery for six extra picks following both the first and second rounds, which will not take effect until the 2013 draft. Teams that are in the bottom 10 in revenue and/or market size go into a pool for six picks after the first round, with odds of winning based on the prior season’s winning percentage. Teams that don’t get one of those picks—and any other team that receives money from revenue sharing—then goes into another lottery for six picks after the second round. The odds of winning are based on prior season winning percentage.
Except for that last bit. Those lottery picks can be dealt, so it’ll be interesting to see how that works.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Found it interesting after all the wailing and teeth gnashing
The total 1st 10 round pool money is a mere 2 million less than that spent in 2011, though with 2 more supplemental round 1 picks this year.
Some individual teams may be facing changes, but the crying about the poor clubs not being able to continue spending their way to contention here is more than balanced by the spending restraints on winning clubs.
Certainly not a good situation for the Rays, being a winner, but the year to year comp is realy skewed by the phenomenal number of supplemental picks the Rays had in 2011 – something that will never happen again under this system.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 21, 2012 3:33 AM EST up reply actions
If you don't like it go throw your life away playing football, see ya in your wheelchair in 10 years, I'll be sure to wipe the droll from your face
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
drool, not droll
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I'll just have to go the NBA route
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Does it actually benefit anyone?
Seems like both owners and players lose.
I dare you to criticize Al Yellon in any way.
You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
The 5 owners dumb enough to go with slot only benefit
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
But they lose out on talent.
I dare you to criticize Al Yellon in any way.
You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
I’d think they’d lose a lot of kids to college this way.
I dare you to criticize Al Yellon in any way.
You have been banned from Bleed Cubbie Blue.
I see a long moderation log here for you. You've worn out your welcome in just about the entire AL East, including your own home team! Congratulations, you've started on the NL Central. Goodbye.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
theyll lose some. im not sure how many or how much of a difference it will make to an individual club.
theres still a 2-sport bonus i believe. on the whole, though, it will transfer a lot of money from amateur athletes to professional billionaires.
Callis only had the decrease of a few million from 2010
So it wasn’t TOO bad
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but how much have these costs gone up recently? how much more would they be going up in the future? they control that now.
It's revenue-tied I think so as MLB revenue increases, so do bonuses
Callis has the first 10 rounds at 189M this year, compared to 191M last year
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
How many kids sign for overslot each year? Honest question, because I hear this thrown out all the time and I'd like to know just how many players we're talking about here
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I have no idea.
I hear about it, too, which is why I mentioned it.
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
You think Stu is for hard slotting?
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
no idea. it isnt like we outspend in the draft. as more big revenue teams adopt the sawx approach the less we benefit from a lack of slot.
Well I hope it does
but I know it’s been pretty much universally viewed as really hurting small market teams.
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-deal-unfair-to-small-market-teams-112211
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/did-a-steinbrenner-write-the-new-cba/
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15572
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
Much of those analyses missed the constraints
that winning teams face under this structure, over focusing on some very short term comps of recent spending by a couple of clubs that weren’t necessarily indicative of a long term trend.
Also, much of this derives from off the cuff analysis before all details were available.
Washington was widely trumpeted, but the fact is their spending of late was skewed by a couple of very high profile, high dollar signings.
But the key backend point is Glass’ above – money will move, and the only remaining unconstrained outlet is free agency, where big money is dominant. But that has also always been the case.
The real growth in player payroll in the last few years ahs been in the arbitration system. And remarkably, this was actually loosened. To my thinking here, the MLBPA – which doesn’t represent minors or potential draftees – kicked ass in this deal.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 21, 2012 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
Game 6 I'm sure
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
as someone living in a Cardinal-centric area that doesn't care about them,
I was at a bar after work for Game 6 and I had a blast. Not as much fun to me as 162 but that probably has to do with my Rays fandom. I’ll always extrinsically view accomplishments over a larger sample size as more impressive, but to the non-Cards non-Rays fans I’m not surprised Game 6 was a bigger finish. Again, really enjoyed both.
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Well it sure didn't help the Yankees any in 2010, did it?
Okay, somebody in the Big East has made this necessary. "BC" in my nickname references the icon. I AM NOT A BOSTON COLLEGE FAN.
Sveet spewing shit, morans responding to him.
zzzz
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
by pudieron89 on Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Pudding Ron,
What shit have I spewed?
Would love to hear this
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I listened to a little of Joe at Charlotte today
Doesn’t sound good for Brignac and his two fans. Joe said ST is really not for evaluation or job competition, aka Sean Rod is our SS
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
It's probably Reid vs EJ for the backup IF spot
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Who will be the 25th man? Guyer?
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Possible or a minor deal sign--but NO way
a bench of Fuld, back up C, Brignac/Johnson and Kepp
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Don't see who would be a good Minor deal
At least as a good veteran
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Maggs for sure and/or Vladdy
but even Damon or Maysui for $1.2 mil in the event Scott or someone else gets hurt
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
They're not coming on those terms
That’s the only problem. They want to be everyday players & be paid like it.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, let's do it this way--Find me the scenario at this point
where any of them will get $3mil+ and 500 AB
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
They won't
They’ll join Jermaine Dye on the couch
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
We're set on lefties, only guy I'd take is D. Lee
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
pretty certain he's retiring, but how set are we if
either of Joyce/Pena/Scott get injiured?
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
We're better positioned than most teams. Guyer/Fuld is an average everyday player, IMO. Pena/Scott cover well for each other and again Guyer brings a bat if need be.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
They may not have a choice
a la Sheffield
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see Lee retiring while Maggs/Vladdy/Damon/Matsui all find jobs
Lee can still play 1B and hit lefties, none of those other guys can field any position
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Lee i believe has a family situation with a young sickly child
and if he can’t play in CHI he won’t play
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Then he's not playing as expected
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's interesting
I hadn’t heard about that
by benderbrodriguez on Feb 20, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Here it is
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2877228
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Then take the 440K contract from the Rays while they make a matching donation to this charity
He gets one last chance to do what he does and the charity gets upwards of 880K. The Rays look good for accommodating the player as well as making a donation which they’ve done for virtually every other deal they’ve made and Lee gets the chance to be a part of that. His daughter isn’t going to get better by him being around, but close to a million dollars buys an awful lot of research.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
obviously it isn't money that motivates him to play baseball
you like many won’t factor in the human element of the game—sadly
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You're right, I'm a heartless monster
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
And not to nitpick
but the minimum is $480 this year.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 21, 2012 3:47 AM EST up reply actions
Rawr
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 21, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I think Guyer/Fuld would be more than average
in terms of WAR, accounting for defense and everything. I wouldn’t be shocked to see 2-3 WAR come out of that platoon, although I’d rather have Guyer as an everyday player.
Cherington has taken off his pants and he’s shitting all over my hopes for 2012
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM CST
by SandalsNoPants on Feb 20, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
And from the sound of it, it will only take a minor league deal
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
.
@TRancel
3m
Aka don’t look at ST batting avg RT @stevecarney According to @RaysJoeMaddon the SS battle will come down to “under the hood things.” #Rays
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I look forward to a spring training of SF1 shoehorning "Reid won't be on the roster" and "Sign Vlad/Maggs" into every post
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'm already growing tired of it
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
If you've got a drum set you might as well beat the shit out of that drum set until everyone knows that you've got a drum set
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd put my nutsack on that drumset
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
laugh as you may, but i said two things and i'll own up if wrong
1-Brignac or Johnson will not be on the OD roster
2- The 25th man will be a bat of some sort
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Yes, the issue is that you say both of these things multiple times every day, we get it.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
and as long as there are those that say something different i'll continue--it's called debating
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Shouting your opinion at anyone that disagrees is not debate
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
says the guy who went from lead writer to perma banned in a few short months
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I'm no angel, being better than me should is a responsibility, not a right
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think anyone disagrees with either of those things.
one of ej or briggy wont be on the od roster, and i’d imagone kepp will be considered the 25th man.
That's the funniest part, no one really disagrees with one permutation of this or another
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Meant nor, if you read both as being one thought.
And I kinda hope he’s right.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks RJ--when their boys especially Reid languishes in the minors we'll see if the retractions come
and this is not personal v Brignac
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
You would never make something personal...
things i’d find funny: Syracuse losing by 20 in Gm 1 of NCAA Tourney to a 16 seed
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I typed Scott Weiland when I meant Kyle Weiland in my BPro piece today.
It happens.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I bet that made you Fall To Pieces
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
well that didnt change what the sentence meant.
i just find it funny that he thinks we can read because he cant type. i still havent seen “the retraction come.”
It does, unless you think the Stone Temple Pilots singer started for Boston last year.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
He famously didn't show up to the STP show in Tampa.
Everyone else did. Scott just…. didn’t show up.
unless you've been under a rock, maybe you have, i think i've been pretty clear on this
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
i think most grads here understand me pretty well--sorry if YOU do not
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
i dont understand why youre getting bent out of shape because you made a typo. im sorry i read what you wrote instead of what you intended to write.
Probably because missing a letter has derailed his comment from a legit baseball topic to typing lessons.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
well then he shouldnt be an ass when people respond to WHAT HE TYPED.
i made a legit comment and he pitched a hissy fit.
Please learn what the words "and" and/or "or" means
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
love the syntax here
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
He's just doing it to distract from how bad his "at least 2/3 of Kotch, Shop and Damon" prediction was
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think everyone is glad that turned out to be wrong, including Sterny.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
i made that very clear--but i wouldn't mind Shop at #1.15mil right now, but i'll concede to Andrew
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
Hopefully Lobaton shows some hitting chops.
I think his defense will be fine-to-good, just needs to be better than horrendous to be fine.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Or stop getting hurt!
Just trade Niemann for Hanigan fair swap
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that's a fair swap for Cincy.
Hanigan has the third-highest on-base percentage amongst catchers since 2009. Niemann’s got a 97 adjusted-earned run average over that same time—or about a league-average starting pitcher—despite pitching in front of a good defense and in a pitchers’ park. Add in costs and injuries, and Niemann’s more of a number four. I don’t know if that’s equal value for Hanigan if you believe he’s this good with the bat..
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
era+ factors in park but not strength of opposition. i have a hard time dinging him for the defense and park then.
Where do you have him then?
I’m guessing he’s an average-ish starter (key word being starter, not pitcher) with injury issues and escalating costs. Yeah, moving away from the ALE helps some, but I don’t think it makes him a number two type.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
that i agree with. i just dont think you should use era+ then try to ding him for park and defense when park is included in that and defense is mitigated by competition.
(I'd still prefer keeping Davis over him.)
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
id move whichever brings back more. niemanns injury concerns fit well with our depth and he's been better when healthy.
Depends on the return, but I'm opposed to selling low on Davis.
His post-DL stuff gave me some hope.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
If they take the kid gloves off on his slider I think he could be a better weapon, but they're just so
hesitant to let a starter throw it since Scotty Kaz blew it out. When he’s throwing his curveball and slider with confidence and spotting his fastball he’s a pretty good pitcher.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
do you really think Kaz is the reason?
that just seems dumb. one guy is a very, very small sample size.
Use the force, Lueke
Obviously, not, but I'd imagine there's research out there to support this
It shouldn’t be a surprise that guys that primarily throw fastballs and change ups have better longevity than guys that are throwing pitches that require more elbow torque, especially the slider.
Kaz is the last player that they let throw the pitch (amongst starters) whenever he wanted, while forcing Price, Hammel, Garza, Davis etc… to all but abandon the pitch. They have continually had guys focus on learning a cutter (Shields, Sonny, Price etc…) despite the pitch not being all that effective in most cases.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
This is what Davis said last year:
On his curveball: "I learned it when I was in my third year of pro ball. I had thrown a slider in high school, kind of a cutter-slider, and they taught me a curveball when I got to low-A. They said, ‘don’t throw your slider anymore, just learn a curveball,’ so I threw 20 or 30 curveballs a game. That’s how I learned.
There was a study suggesting this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/sports/baseball/26score.html?_r=1
But it got debunked in a way: http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/7/27/964592/on-elbows-and-curves-in-young
I also noticed that the slider rank continued to drop, but I’m not sure if it’s by the org’s choice or just how things worked out: http://theprocessreport.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/the-rays-rotation-and-sliders/
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fine with the Rays developing Jeremy Hellickson types instead of Josh Johnson types
As long as they commit to fielding a great defense you can get whiffs with the change instead of the slider. You still need a pitch for same-handers whether it’s the fastball or the occasional curve, but as long as the change is kept down then you’re dealing with healthy, ground-balling pitchers that still get plenty of strikeouts.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Hellickson's had some injury woes himself.
But I get your point.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Though Archer gives me pause, unless the plan all along has been to move him to the pen
You can’t take away his slider because then he’s a one pitch guy and he’s too far developed to make him start over.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Can't imagine they'll move Archer to the pen if they still have aspirations of Colome starting
Which was the suggestion given by Mayo or the BA report. Colome seems like the bigger mess between those two.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Throw in Lara and Torres and the Rays have really cornered the market on
future Gio Gonzalez’s
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still optimistic about Archer.
Athletic enough that he should tighten up his command. His change made some progress. With two grade-70 pitches you might not need a lot more to get by. If they can ease him off using his slider so much that could help, too.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
What does athleticism have to do with command?
Anecdotally many of the least fit pitchers (Buehrle, Colon, Silva, Sabathia) have great command
by benderbrodriguez on Feb 20, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
How does being athletic help with that though?
This is a legitimate question. I don’t know much about baseball mechanics themselves
by benderbrodriguez on Feb 20, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol
try repeating any muscle memory activity. the more well coordinated (read: athletic) the easier it is.
Right, and more athleticism means you can make adjustments easier.
Basically, go outside and try repeating a pitching delivery. Then think about how the best pitchers have little variation in their deliveries to the naked eye.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
You can think about all the moving parts too.
Weight shift, balance, arm angle, arm action, release point, and so on. You want it to look easy.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not intuitively understanding your point, but I'll take your word for it
by benderbrodriguez on Feb 20, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well the pros make it look easy
Like I said, go outside and set up a target similar to the catcher’s mitt, put some space between you an the target, and then go through all the motions. There’s a lot of moving parts that have to sync just right in order to spot pitches as well as the pros do.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I spent parts of Saturday night walking around the city throwing snowballs at hard to hit targets
So satisfying when they hit home
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
why? because he's HUGE?
you dont think a guy that is 6’8 and 300+ lbs with that much body control is athletic? this is hilarious.
It's a known fact that latins hate blacks even more than whites
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Don't think of it as the textbook example of athletic
We’re not talking athletic like Kapler or someone wound tight who looks good on the beach. It’s more about the ability to control your body’s movements.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
If you aren't athletic enough
to repeat an unnatural motion to the rotator-cuff, you’re going to suck.
Changing a golf swing by one degree can change the accuracy of the shot by yards.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Feb 20, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
I understand the injury concern with sliders
So I get trying to ween young pitchers off it. But injury wasn’t really Kaz’s problem so much as he lost a feel for the slider. Well, that and he was/is a headcase.
I guess if we’re telling guys in A ball to throw curves instead, I get that. When you have guys at/near the major league level, it seems like a bad idea.
Use the force, Lueke
that's not my recollection
but I could be wrong. It’s happened before. I missed on Doug Froebel back in the day.
Use the force, Lueke
2008 was when he started to lose effectiveness in general.
2008 was also the year his slider-usage dropped from the high-teens evry year to 9.6%. his slider also became much less effective that year per FG’s pitch values. 2008 was the year he started the season with a strained elbow, and he was never the same after.
He developed a tear in his UCL that stemmed from a lot of things
(bad conditioning habits, violent throwing motion, etc…), but I think if he didn’t throw the slider then it’s less likely that he develops the tear that ultimately made him disrupt his mechanics, both of which combined to sap him of velocity. The reason he “lost the feel” for his slider is because the team didn’t want to throw such a violent pitch after signing that contract. His stubbornness and immaturity made him a liability (that and him smoking so much weed with David Price) so I’m just happy they were able to get a couple of nice players for him and not be on the hook for his salary. We’ll always have 2005 – 07, though, and hopefully some lessons learned.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hanigan hits for no power though
League avg bat, and outside of 2010, he’s been a bit below. Maybe need to sweeten the deal a bit, but Niemann for Hanigan isn’t the different in value.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind: league-average bats who can play catcher (and he can) are pretty valuable.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but still, Hanigan is not like
Some rock of a catcher. Either way, it’s a good fit for both teams.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get defensive when someone points out that you're over-selling your guy and under-selling the other guy
All fans do this, you’ve said your piece, now let it go.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
If you were the Reds, would you trade Hanigan for Niemann straight-up?
Usually, if you aren’t hesitant about doing the deal then it’s not a fair one.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
No, but more because of his nice contract+Mesoraco being a rookie
Rather than straight up talent.
I guess it depends on what you think you have in Niemann is he guy A the #2-3 or guy B the one who you don’t wish to watch.
But maybe I’m a little more pessimistic on how good Hanigan could be given more playing time.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
It's a fair concern about Hanigan.
I tend to think of Niemann as being the back-end guy and I’m scared of his health, so obviously I’d make that swap quickly.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, if you think Niemann is going to struggle to make enough starts
Then yeah bad trade for Cincy-I’m going on an assumption that Niemann is healthy & both parties agree he will remain that way.
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
At the plate, Hanigan and Jaso were virtually the same in the minors.
Given more ABs, the adjustment to ALE pitching, and switching from a hitters park to a pitchers park, I think Jaso’s 2010 would be Hanigan’s absolute best case scenario.
It’s interesting, but if you take a harder look at Hanigan you’ll see lots of red flags about him being able to take on a larger role in a tougher division and ballpark. At least I did anyway.
Yeah, I wouldn't argue against that point.
It’s the same question you’d have about David Ross (or that people did have about Gregg Zaun). I would add that 2010 John Jaso is a good player to have at catcher. Add in Hanigan’s defensive upgrade, and I’d be willing to trade Niemann for him, I think.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Defense would be the selling point for me.
BtB had him 10th in their overall defensive rankings and BPro had him 9th at framing pitches.
I’ve convinced myself his bat won’t translate well at all, and park adjustments puts his OPS below .700 last year. But given the great D and the chance that he hits close to his career line, I guess they could do worse for Niemann.
Yes and he's attested as much
Sterny admits when wrong instead of relentlessly doubling down and waiting for a bad month to say ha I told you so
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Feb 20, 2012 3:20 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I hear we could get Johnny Damon on the cheap
October 28th, 2011-- a date which will live in infamy--
OTTOTD.com
I'd sign him for nothing and then just keep him on the bench strictly for his leadership. Think of him as an extra coach
The extra 2%
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
i just like to pretend that he's forgotten his previous comment about it each time he makes another one. aging is a bitch.
I'd find this funny but it reminds me too much of my grandfather telling me the same Korean War story over and over
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
things i'd find funny: Syracuse losing by 20 in Gm 1 of NCAA Tourney to a 16 seed
follow me on twitter @sternfan10
I don't think they'll win it all, because, you'd have to be an idiot to think your team can win it all, but I think they'll have a deep run
I love that every game has a different guy stepping up on offense while the defense is one of the best in the country. Their half court offense bogs down from time to time, but nobody is beyond flaws this year. People ding them for their schedule, but the NCAA today is less about the big name schools dominating how more about how the former also rans can give a game at any time.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
We've got a pain in the ass customer who talks about how he can't believe he drives a car made by the people he fought in the Korean War
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
That car probably has more parts made in America than the American cards
I put the screw IN THE TUNA!
by Transplanted on Feb 20, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Doubtful...
and it’s a South Korean car
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Did you kidnap him and force him to buy cars from you?
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
of course
Boom. Outta Here.
Follow @RyanGilliss
by Ryan Gilliss on Feb 20, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
This should get plenty of play in GDTs this year.

Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Feb 20, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
IDGI
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
.
PORT CHARLOTTE — The Rays put considerable effort and emotion into winning the 2010 American League East title, battling to the final day of the season then rallying in extra innings to beat out the Yankees by one game.
But Sunday, New York GM Brian Cashman said his team wasn’t trying — and that the championship “really meant nothing more than a T-shirt and a hat.”
Rays officials, who take great pride in the two division championships they consider the ultimate measure of success, were limited in their response.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Feb 20, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
.
Maddon on Brian Cashman’s statement that his Yankees conceded the division title in 2010: “The banner’s up there.”
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Feb 20, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
You care what the bitter GM of one of our rivals thinks?
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Nope.
I care about how chill Joe Maddon is.
Sign lady must die.
#rootingforstusbottomline
by EminenceFront on Feb 20, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Fair point
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
i like the thought, but does it work if he's already wearing sunglasses?
9 recs.
Steve, the front page is calling……
by mr. maniac on Jan 24, 2012 12:46 PM EST
"Please break your typewriter and computer and never come out of your ass cave again"
Love this

I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
What's awesome is the Yanks record despite that DL time
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Feb 20, 2012 5:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Rays have been almost too healthy(in comparison to average DL stints) the last few seasons.
Every team has to suffer through losing key players for extended periods of time over the course of a season but the Rays have been healthier than most. Last year Longoria was the only “key” player out for a month but they didn’t really suffer anything worse than Davis and Neimann missing 2-3 starts. That may be lucky, could be superior training(training/medical staff) or both.
But they may be tempting fate that they can remain as healthy as they have been in recent years. And while "depth’ may be the godsend in all of this(especially with the rotation) they could quickly become a fragile team if positional injuries pile up to players they are counting on….. as it is for every team but, again, Rays have been fortunate lately, IMO.
The alphabet is a wondrous thing
Use the force, Lueke
by nomoredevil on Feb 20, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Friend of the site King Kaufman?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Feb 20, 2012 7:19 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
Long time friend of the site!
WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE
If you lived closer I would have kicked the snot out of you by now
Matt Moore. That is all.
by joeybw
I liked you better pre op
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
My copy has been sitting in town since 9 am on Saturday morning, guess I should have signed up for the non-free shipping if I didn't want them to hold it hostage for several days.
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
fwiw, mine just arrived today according to my wife
It is waiting for me to get home
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Them refers to UPS/USPS/FedEx not BP or Amazon both of whom I've been very pleased with so far.
Got this and the Fielding Bible 3, each for around half off and didn’t have to pay for shipping. Can’t really beat that
I got away from the one thing that kept me on the straight and narrow, and that was my relationship with the Lord
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 20, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
I've been abusing the hell out of my Prime trial membership
Of course, that $179 speeding ticket today is ending all of that fun. Kansas sucks
by Jason Collette on Feb 20, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions








![Matt Moore Wallpaper I made. :]
Here's the direct link
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb472/lewiedesigns/Wallpapers/mattmoore1440by900.jpg](http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/234065/mattmoore1440by900_small.jpg)

















