The (new) Great Debate

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 30, 2006 5:16 PM EST Comment 7 comments

    The debate is older than the forming of the continents, but it's always fun to play in order to kill time (or space-time continuum for you hairy ones) but let's go with two new names. Which of the two `Wonder Twins' will be the better at the end of their careers?
    Reid Brignac, who has the bat that if he can stick at shortstop (which has been suggested that indeed he can) would become very valuable. Evan Longoria figures to be more of a line drive hitter who will hit more singles than anything (include walk.)
    I'm not going to go into a Robert Frost like rendition of Fire and Ice, but quite simply I'd take Reid Brignac. Neither are Neifian with the glove, and bat wise Brignac brings the boom, add in the fact that the walls at the Trop are being lowered and that he's a left handed bat which makes him even more intriguing to me.
    Longoria flew through the minor leagues, but part of his success at Visalia and his (semi) success at Montgomery can be placed partially on the fact he had Brignac batting behind him. Though you could say that defensibly Longoria helped Brignac out a bit.
    So which one would you take, Briggy or Longy?

Poll

Which would you pick?

Reid Brignac

9 votes

Evan Longoria

10 votes

19 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 7 comments

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Comments

Longoria Vs. Brignac

As you know, I've been the foremost Reid Brignac fan since his drafting in 2004. I've been his unofficial hype machine and I even created his nickname (The Cajun God of Baseball).

However, the question being debated is "Who profiles to be the better future Major Leaguer between the two?"

This is one of the few time that I can't say that Brignac is the better hitter/overall prospect. If someone asked me around the draft, I'd pick Brignac. However, seeing them play on the same teams and put up equally as impressive stats, I can say that I can see what the Rays scouts seen in Longoria when they tabbed him as our first round pick and I can see how you can easily argue that Longoria profiles as the better Major Leaguer of the 2.
- - -

Evan Longoria's 2006 MiLB stats ( 3 Levels- 62 games/248 Abs):

.315/.360/.597- 18 HRs- 41 Runs Scored- 58 RBIs- 4 SB (2 CSs)- 44 Ks/19 BBs

Reid Brignac's 2006 MiLB stats (2 Levels- 128 games/521 Abs):

.321/.376/.539- 24 HRs- 100 Runs Scored- 99 RBIs- 15 SBs (6 CSs)- 113 Ks/42 BBs

- - -

While you can easily see that Brignac pretty much dominated Longoria, stat-wise across the board, you have to put Longoria's stats into context. Longoria had just finished a 56 game season at Long Beach State University, where he hit. .353/.468/.602 with 11 HRs- 42 Runs Scored and 43 RBIs.

Also if you look at the production of Longoria in the lower amount of AB & Games, you can say that Longoria's 210 At-bats in High A and Double A combined were probably as good, possibly even better than Brignac's 521 Combined At-bats in those same 2 levels.

Both prospects don't walk as much as they should, but Evan puts the ball in play more and strikes out less than Brignac does. Longoria's college stats lead me to believe that he'll walk at a decent clip without really striking out much. Brignac, on the other hand, has had consecutive 100 K seasons (which is one of his worst flaws as a hitter).

Now everyone knows that hitting isn't the only thing that should be considered when comparing positional prospects, fielding and other intangibles also come into play. When comparing Longoria and Brignac as fielders, there's no comparison between the 2. Longoria looks more comfortable (plays back on his heels more) and fields significantly better at Third Base than Brignac whose arm-strength and range already have been questioned. Brignac isn't in the Upton range of Errors at SS, but 31 errors is still a lot for a Shortstop.

Another thing to compare between these 2, are their demeanors. I've seen and heard Brignac play and he's so quiet and laid back that he almost robot-like (I've even heard from a few Rays fans that he's got a "crazy in the head" look going on) in showing his emotions. Longoria has been known to curse to himself, throw his glove for screwing up and giving all his teammates high-fives when plays are made. Longoria showed this year that when he slumps, he breaks out of them relatively quickly. He's got an attitude about him that shows that he hates when he's underperforming and he hates when he's losing. At every stop, he was leading the teams to victory (and that's saying a lot when he was playing in Hudson Valley).

I believe that Brignac has the tools to fix his problems and project as a better major leaguer than Longoria, but he's got a lot of work to do to close that gap. Let's hope he can learn better pitch recognition (which may lead to better plate discipline) from his mentor, David Dellucci (whom he worked with last offseason). I just don't know who is going to help Briggy in the fielding department.

by Jacob Larsen on Nov 1, 2006 1:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

C'mon

Is anyone going to defend "The Cajun God of Baseball"?

by Jacob Larsen on Nov 2, 2006 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

the numbers won't lie

but you brought up their posture and emotion during the game and stated that Longoria is more of the leader type. Yet on the Rays, CC and Kazmir will be the leaders, CC all ready is and there's no way that either CGoB or Gorey will take that spot over (barring unforeseeable circumstances), so Reid's 'lone wolf' status isn't going to affect his play on the field. The fact that Gorey can become a leader is nice but not necesarry.

Brignac does have some issues to address, but what player doesn't? CC, Rocco, and Delmon need to learn plate discpline skills yet that hasn't stopped them from getting the job done.

In the field sure Longoria is smoother, but he doesn't even have a sure position. We think he'll move to 2b, but whose to say he fields as well there as 3b?

Also you mention Longoria's #'s at the lower levels were as good or better than Brignac's, well Gorey was fresh from being a senior in college, last time I checked Brignac was straight out of high school, we're talking about a major step up either way, but even moreso for Reid.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 2, 2006 4:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Pffffft......

Pfffft, again.

Wrong on a few things, but a very valid attempt at a rebuttal.

With the Rays, CC is only the leader because he usually has the most production of the team. However, he doesn't do anything in the clubhouse that makes him the bonafide captain of the team. In fact, I believe Rocco is still considered to be the "captain". Rocco is more of a "talker"/"jokester" than Crawford is. When the media wants a soundbite from the Rays, they usually get it from Gomes(because he's bound to say something funny) or Rocco(because he basically has the greatest pulse of the team). Kaz also shows tons of a emotion when he's pumped up and is generally an easy guy to talk to. What's stopping Longoria from stepping in as a leader of the team? He was the leader of Long Beach State when he was there and picked up the slack for his teammates there. Brignac just doesn't do much to show you that he's "having fun" rather than "just doing his job". Baseball's best players can be cerebral like Briggy is, but there's a matter of having fun while you do it too.

Brignac's problems are more evident than Longoria's, though. 31 errors at a high-activity position like SS shows that there's something wrong with what he's doing(mechanics) or he's not fit to play at the position(which scouts say otherwise, on a consistent basis). The Rays need to monitor Brignac this offseason and make sure that he works on his fielding as much as he works on his hitting. The strikeouts/plate-discipline problems aren't as evident as they used to be, so that means that he may have figured things out/turned the corner.

Longoria filled in at SS and 2B when he was in college and fielded fairly well there, his fielding skills aren't being hindered by the move but rather being helped. His average-to-almost-above-average glove would profile at 2B to be above-average to almost "superstar" level.

As for using Longoria's college time as a reason why Brignac should be put on a higher pedastal, that's a bunch of bologna. There's about 4-5 months difference in age between the two and Brignac has more experience with Minor League pitching/parks than Longoria has. Longoria may have faced a few of those same pitchers in college, but you have to remember that Longoria transferred to Long Beach St. from a Community College and he wasn't recruited by any colleges. Brignac was set to be a LSU Tiger(letter of intent was already signed, I believe) when we drafted him. Longoria also played in the most pitcher-friendly park in any major athletic conference in college, so his 2006 college stats should've been more highly regarded than what they are.

by Jacob Larsen on Nov 2, 2006 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't using age as a reason

for Longoria's college time as a way to downplay his stats in comparison to Brignac, I'm saying at the lower levels you said 'when Brignac was there' they were better, they should be since Longoria was OLDER at A ball and such than Brignac, now they are even at level and have always been even at age, but to say Longoria's college experience didn't effect his lower level stats is probably inaccurate

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 2, 2006 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Selective Memory

Evan played a total of 8 games in Hudson Valley, after they changed their mind to not start Longoria at High A. He got hot quickly and looked way better than the pitchers and other hitters that he was facing. His 4 HRs in a pitcher-friendly NYP League is better than what highly-touted 3B youngster/future slugger hit there.

At High A, which is pretty much where his talent level evens out, he hit a glut of his HRs there. So he basically was facing Minor League vets/upcoming "top prospects" and hitting well against them. Had he started there, Evan probably would've been way over double-digits in HRs in Visalia(instead of his 8) because of it's knack for being HR-friendly.

In Double A, Reid and Evan seperated themselves. While Brignac showed that he can hit for a decent average, Evan showed that he has true HR-power when he hit 6 HRs in the regular season and 3 more in the postseason in a very pitcher-friendly Southern League. While most people don't factor in postseason numbers, they both hit the same pitchers and they both had their moments to shine. Evan's star shined brighter in AA, to me at least.

by Jacob Larsen on Nov 2, 2006 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

that Brignac is a "lone wolf". At instructs, he was very talkative and joked around with other players a lot.

Also, his defense improved a lot over the course of the year. In fact, I think that when he had 18, Upton had 18 as well. Briggy only went on to have 13 more and Upton... well...

by Overman42 on Nov 2, 2006 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs