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Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies


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Now, I'm the first to point out the irony of the post title. However, in my "researching" (which basically consists of me going through random baseball/devil rays-related articles), I've started to see consistent misconceptions and horrible inaccuracies when it comes to the Rays.

Star-divide

Misconception #1: The Rays continue to look for lopsided trades and always try to "ask for the moon". No matter the Front Office, the Rays remain the same.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong-ity Wrong.

That was a definite tactic of Chuck LaMar, however the Rays new front office don't seem to make those kinds of trades anymore. If you want any indication that they aren't "ask for the moon" types anymore, check out last year's trades.

  1. Danys Baez & Lance Carter for Edwin Jackson and Chuck Tiffany. Result: Basically even in results. Neither side has an advantage, as of now. Baez may not be on the Dodgers, but he brought them Betemit.
  2. Dewon Brazelton for Sean Burroughs. Result: Definite loss trade, however I'm still glad that AWOL is gone.
  3. Travis Schlicting for Josh Paul. Result: Major League catcher(though not a great one) for a minor leaguer who outright sucks overall.
  4. Aubrey Huff for Ben Zobrist & Mitch Talbot. Result: Rays clearly have the advantage with Huff going to the Orioles and Zobrist profiling to be an above average Util guy and Mitch Talbot being way better than advertised.
  5. Carlos Hines for Tyler Walker. Result: Wash, seeing as Hines got his chances as a Ray and never did anything. Bad thing is, nor did Walker.
  6. Mark Hendrickson & Toby Hall for Dioneer Navarro, Jae Seo and PTBNL(Justin Ruggiano). Result: Rays win, with Hendrickson being the only former Ray remaining on the Dodgers. Navarro is 22 and already has matched Hall's TB OPS. Seo=meh and Ruggiano is a Sickels' favorite.
  7. Julio Lugo for Joel Guzman and Sergio Pedroza. Result: Yet to be determined, for now. With Logan White heading up LA's draft warroom, who knows what he's gonna get for the Lugo draft pick(for him signing with Boston). However, we got some talent prospects that it'd be hard for the Rays to be upset about.
  8. Russell Branyan for Evan Meek & PTBNL(Dale Thayer). Result: Not a great return, but far more than what we should've expect for a .206 hitter. Something is better than nothing.
Misconception #2- All we draft is H.S. Outfielders or "hard to classify" infielders, while we should be drafting MLB-ready College Starting Pitchers.

I've seen many places which think all the Rays do is get who they deem "the best hitter" available while following our "needs"(i.e. Pitching) in Amatuer drafts. However, we've drafted our fair share of pitchers with our picks and none have really panned out just yet. Niemann, out of the 3 first-round SPs drafted by the Rays, still has the potential to be dominant in the major leagues while Brazelton and Townsend are less likely in my mind.

This year's draft was the catalyst of a huge debate that still rages on. The Rays chose Evan Longoria, deemed the best player available over pitchers who put up gawdy numbers in college(Tim Linecum and Andrew Miller). Evan far exceeded every scout and Rays executive's expectectations rampaging through the minors and showing far more potential than originally projected. Linecum continued to impress in his K/9 numbers and K/BB, but questions still remain about whether or not he's a starter or reliever. Andrew Miller didn't really have enough time to show any indication of what kind of major leaguer he is. However, the Rays moved former heralded prospect BJ Upton to 3B and signed Japanese Gold-glove IFer Iwamura to play for the Rays at one of Longoria's 2 potential positions, which have made the Longoria factor more confusing.

The Rays have a tough decision this draft as well, picking between a high-profile college pitcher(David Price) and a great position player at a "need" position(Wieters). Most believe that we'll "do the right thing" by picking Price over Wieters. Who knows, though.

Misconception #3- The Rays grow/develop players, only to trade them away or lose them to Free Agency

Many Rays fans believe that we develop good players, only to let them walk away. However, if you look at a list of players that we've ever let go. I only see a small handful of players that have turned out to be above average or even major league average at their positions, post-Rays. Bobby Abreu, which we had nothing to do with our development department, and Randy Winn, who was a late-bloomer who was a part of the Lou deal, are the only 2 players that come to mind. Tanyon Sturtze, Nick Green, Damian Rolls, Jorge Sosa, Jesus Colome, Steve Cox, Jared Sandberg, Victor Zambrano, Nick Bierbrodt, Damon Hollins, Carlos Hines, Quentin McCracken, Greg Vaughn, Jason Johnson, Travis Lee, Dewon Brazelton, Aubrey Huff, Travis Harper, Dan Wheeler and Matt Diaz come to mind in players that we're better off without. Some of those names, ironically, are Rays record holders. However, we've been fortunate enough to have a system full of better and much more high profile players.

Misconception #4- The Rays new ownership isn't, and never will be, willing to spend money and are only biding time to move the Rays out of Florida.

The first part is still in it's "gray area", mainly due to the small amount of time that the Rays new ownership has been in full control and due to a few moves. The NDRO has spent cash on keeping it's best players(Crawford and Baldelli) by signing them to long-term deals, signing International talent. opening international talent development camps and rennovating Tropicana Field & Port Charlotte(it's future ST site). However, 2 consecutive offseasons have landed 0 "big name" Free Agents. Iwamura was a Top 20 FA this year, but the posting system has it's limits in some ways and the Iwamura signing wasn't a "big risk" player. Still "gray" area, until we know for sure.

I, on the other hand, am almost definite that the NDRO isn't planning a move from Florida anytime soon. If we wanted to move, we wouldn't have spent the money that we are to rennovate Tropicana or went to look for a new Spring Training site and rennovate that. Also, I'm almost definite that the NDRO had to give Florida indications that they're keeping the team in Florida in order to get the grant money for the Spring Training rennovations. However, by not being a Floridian citizen, I'm not up-to-date on all of the political situations of Florida.

Misconception #5- The Rays need pitching, at all costs (even if it means their best players)

One of the things that irks me the most, is how every rumor site or "baseball columnists" always seem to throw our best players in trade rumors for veteran/young pitcher possible. I don't know how many times I've seen Rocco and Carl in trade rumors, even after Friedman deemed Carl "untouchable" and made his "we're not trading major leaguers for prospects anymore" comment. However, Rocco for Hayden Penn for Adam Loewen pops up on websites?

We do need pitching, that's not entirely false. However, the misconception is that we need any kind of pitcher just as long as he pitches. More specifically, we need a true #2 pitcher or another "ace"-type of pitcher and a set-up man/closer. Even more specifically, we need a veteran prescence at those spots. We don't need "bottom of the order" pitchers or even guys who would be great middle-rotation guys, seeing that we've got plenty of those options already on the team and "in the wings". Hell, if we don't get one through Free Agency or a trade this offseason/season, we may fill those holes from within from our own farm system. We've got THAT good of a system, actually.

While I may get chided or heckled for saying this, We've got a good enough farm sytem that we could possibly contend with a team that is 90% or more "homegrown." We've nearly got a self-sustaining farm system that is only going to get better because of the upcoming draft and international scouting. If you don't believe me, look at how many "expendable" parts that we've got at the Major League level right now.

(Possibly)More to come later??

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Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
Wait...you mean Ricky Nolasco for B.J. Upton or Seth McClung isn't a good deal? Who knew!?

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 10, 2007 4:17 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
My Fav. is #2...

I cant tell you how many times I am in a situation where me being a Devil Ray fan comes up.  Every time this happens, joe Mets fan or Yankee fan always says, "you guys are never going to be a good team because you cant afford to keep your talent."  or "It must suck that you guys draft talent but always trade them away when you are in last place."  

Every time i hear anything similar to this i always simply ask them to point out just 1 guy that we gave up or traded away that amounted to anything.   No we are not Oakland and lost the likes of Giambi and Tejada.

In hindsight as true as it is it is also very sad that from all of those high picks we have not gotten much back until now.

POE

by bpoe13 on Jan 10, 2007 5:10 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
Living in the Chicagoland, I get heckled by both Cubs and Sox fans alike.

It just takes a few mentions of "Wait til next year" or "100 or so years of nothing" to shut them up.

The White Sox fans, though, aren't as harsh and are easily quieted by the question "How times can you trade for an Alomar?"

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 10, 2007 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
Despite having losing records the past two seasons, Wheeler has put up impressive ERAs of 2.21 and 2.52 (with a 1.86 in the hitter's haven that is Minute Maid).  

That sounds exactly like what the Rays need, not a player they are better off without.

by SOOOtaguchi on Jan 10, 2007 5:58 PM EST reply actions  

SOOOOOOOOOO
He can get thrown in the Randy Winn/Bobby Abreu pile.

Wow, 2 true players that have excelled since leaving us and it took Wheeler our new Pitching Coach to fix him.

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 10, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
Hi -

I hope you don't mind me commenting on this, as a non-Rays fan.  mlbtraderumors.com referenced this site, and I liked this article.

re: "We do need pitching, that's not entirely false. However, the misconception is that we need any kind of pitcher just as long as he pitches. More specifically, we need a true #2 pitcher or another 'ace'-type of pitcher and a set-up man/closer. Even more specifically, we need a veteran prescence at those spots. We don't need 'bottom of the order' pitchers or even guys who would be great middle-rotation guys, seeing that we've got plenty of those options already on the team and 'in the wings'. Hell, if we don't get one through Free Agency or a trade this offseason/season, we may fill those holes from within from our own farm system. We've got THAT good of a system, actually.

While I may get chided or heckled for saying this, We've got a good enough farm sytem that we could possibly contend with a team that is 90% or more 'homegrown.' "

=> Sheez, I couldn't agree more.  If the Rays needed a crappy 5th starter, they would have kept Hendrickson!  While the Blue Jays were ripped for their risky moves last off-season, splurging on the best starter and best closer available at least ID'd their two biggest holes.  I can see TB doing that next year, and it having a huge impact with all the young arms coming up making the 3-5 slots in the rotation viable.  A great thing about having a strong farm system is that you should almost never have to over-pay for mediocrity.

re: "# Aubrey Huff for Ben Zobrist & Mitch Talbot. Result: Rays clearly have the advantage with Huff going to the Orioles and Zobrist profiling to be an above average Util guy and Mitch Talbot being way better than advertised." -

=> I like Zobrist, and from what I can tell, I think he'll hit enough to keep the spot warm for Brignac, and then be a great utility guy with switch-hitting on-base skills (Jose Oquendo with lesser defense?)  But keeping Huff and offering him arbitration would have meant more high picks.  I think if Talbot keeps up his gains from 2006, it's advantage-Rays, but there was some value paid here, too.

by BobbyMac on Jan 11, 2007 6:48 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
We would've gotten 1 more pick, nothing more. However, there's a decent chance that Huff could've accepted arbitration as well.

Anyways, great comment and feel free to comment anytime as long as it's respectful(though, I don't think you'll ever give us problems).

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 11, 2007 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
I like your take Jake. The only thing I'd point out is regarding Price vs. Wieters. All of the pundits were saying that Prior should have been the #1 pick there...sure looks like Mauer is the better pick now...
BigJon

by BigJon @ DRaysBay on Jan 11, 2007 6:02 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
However, Mauer was barely 6 foot when he was drafted. He grew into the 6'4" to 6'6" that he currently stands. He's not going through "tall catcher stagnation" because his body is not carrying extra weight and he's yet to show any knee problems. Add the fact that Gardenhire has a good back-up catcher and has the DH spot to use, Mauer won't be forced to move off of the catching spot.

Wieters, on the other hand, is a full-grown behemoth and he's already being considered for some 1B duties in college. Luckily for us, Wieters also doubles as a pretty decent reliever.

Price, to me, is a mystery. From what I've read, he really hasn't had an illustrious career until his Team USA dominance this summer. There's also an unknown in NC State's former center, Andrew Brackmann, that could be in the fold for the #1 spot because he's devoted his time to being a full-time baseball player and he's got height to go along with his great off-speed stuff.

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 11, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
Joe was 6'4 when he was drafted, not barely 6'.  But, he was also an increadible athlete too.  He was the #1 recruited QB in the nation that year.

If Weiters is the best player, and proves himself to be, we could do the same thing the Twins do with Mauer.  We'd have a pretty good back-up in Navy for relatively cheap.

Price is very polished.  He's close to big league ready and he's go good stuff.

Brackmann is not nearly as polished, but throws harder and has a higher ceiling.  Brackmann probably won't be ready until at least 09' and likely 2010.  It often takes 6'6" and taller pitchers a while to figure out their mechanics because they have so many moving parts.

by Tyler on Jan 11, 2007 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
I jump back and forth monthly, I would like to think Price has a great year (Patrick has told me the Vandy INF DEF. is medicore - average at best) so I'll be watching both closely this year.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 11, 2007 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
What?  You mean the guy whose defense up in the Bronx was compared to Manny Ramirez, while playing 3B for the Commodores, isn't helping their infield defense?

by Brickhaus on Jan 12, 2007 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Pedro Alvarez?
He too could be a first round pick, if not this year, then possibly next. He's got a great bat, but his defense sucks.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jan 14, 2007 2:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Pedro Alvarez?
Unless he went to a JUCO before last year, he can't be drafted this season.

If I remember correctly, Alvarez just won the Freshman of the Year award this year.

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 14, 2007 7:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Pedro Alvarez?
I am not familar on NCAA drafting rules, so I'll take your word for it.

Indeed, he did just win Freshman of the Year. Alvarez is an excellent hitter, there is no doubt about that, and IMO will certainly be a 1st Round Pick when drafted. His defense is still suspect, however, but he was part of BA's No. 1 ranked recruiting class for the 'Dores in 2005-06. Hopefully he and Price can lead the No. 8 'Dores to great things this year.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jan 14, 2007 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
That reminds me of something kinda similar from long, long ago..

by RATW on Jan 14, 2007 11:19 PM EST reply actions  

Oh Gaudin!
I've heard that Kevin Cash hand delivers every copy of this edition.

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 14, 2007 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh Gaudin!
Don't forget about Dewon Brazelton, lord knows some haven't....

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 14, 2007 11:35 PM EST up reply actions  

WHOA!
Syd Thrift can ghostwrite from the afterlife?

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jan 14, 2007 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: WHOA!
He can also ghostride the whip.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 14, 2007 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Murder He Wrote
Romano did it in the kitchen with a candlestick...

by Jacob Larsen on Jan 15, 2007 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jake's Take: Devil Rays for Dummies
That edition was written when Syd was very much alive and dreaming of Jason Romano plugging that hole at second.

by RATW on Jan 15, 2007 9:16 PM EST reply actions  

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