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Oh My...

It's beginning! Note that the new URL for the official site will be Raysbaseball.com starting immediately after the first of the year. As far as our plans for the activities today and tomorrow, we'll have reports from tonight's unveiling posted sometime tomorrow.

The new gear is online and it's quite nice in my eyes.

More after the jump.

Star-divide


Home jersey.


BP Jersey


And of course cap, check out the rest of the new gear at the team's online store.

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With the excpetion of the cap
Quite nice my you know what.  They did it.  They really did it.  They just alienated a lot of fans all in the name of "business".  As long as I can do this, I am more pro Tampa Bay than I am pro Rays.  Stu can stick it with his explanation in the press release.
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 7:02 PM EST reply actions  

I won't apologize for liking the color scheme
But I do understand the pro-Tampa line of thinking, pro sports teams are one of the few things that gives a city an identity that the majority of the country knows.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 8, 2007 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

If it's not one thing with you...
Newsflash: Joe, Vincenzo Naimoli is gone and won't ever be back in his old role as owner.

You complain and bicker all the f'n time about the lack of TB, lack of "true veteran leadership", how you'd try to "fix" the team without relying on so much homegrown talent.

Y'know what, I'm happy that you have your opinion but most of it is drummed up by stupid BS that you hear on the radio. Outside of Fenton, Tampa radio is a barrel-full of monkey turds. However, you don't know as much as you do about the business of baseball and how a baseball team is run.

by Jacob Larsen on Nov 8, 2007 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Breaking news flash
My complaints are NOT is what being said on the radio!!!  It is what is NOT being said, not what is said.  There is a lack of intellectual, intelligent and thought-provoking discussion that riles me up.  And its beyond what is said on this site, on the electronic or print media or other forms of communication both either here or nationally.

It is what it is.  And I can break myself down in excruciating detail.  I can write thesis reports and write discertations for my post graduate work and this team and supporting THIS community and the franchises is what I care about the most.  And they are nothing but jokers.

Tell me this, when will this club stop talking about player development and arbitration elgible talent and DIP and play the market like any other team?  When will this club sign another pedigree level player over the age of 28 or with 6 years of big league service to a multiyear 8 figure contract?  Its all about player development and arbitration control, both noble concepts but recipes for mediocrity and 81-81 in the long term.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Worked for the A's of the late 90's
Didn't take them to the promised land of the World Series
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Jeremy Giambi needs to learn how to slide
I believe that was the LDS not the LCS when that took place.
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It was
But I couldn't think of any other memorable moment in the post season for the A's.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 8, 2007 11:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: It was
The 03 LDS with Boston and the 06 farce with Detroit
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Worked for the A's of the late 90's
The playoffs have and always will be a crapshoot.

by sattp on Nov 8, 2007 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Worked for the A's of the late 90's
A's didn't make the playoffs once in the late 90's. Their streak of success started in 2000. And not only didn't win it all, but haven't even gone to the Series, late 90's or this decade.

From 1999 to 2000 (the playoff run begins)payroll jumped 33% - $8 million to $32 million. Interesting, their 1999 payroll for 25 man roster at season start is very similar to Rays for 2007 ($24.15 mil). Of course the majors minimum then was $200k, versus '07's $380k. They held steady (+ 1.7 mil) in '01, then up 20% to 40 mil in '02, then up 20% to 50 mil in '03. (Interesting how percents play - 8 mil is 33%, 3 years later $10 mil is only 20. Figures lie, liars figure?) Not the math of a team with guys at the minimum, which was $300k in '03, or their low man in the '02 season at $202k, one Carlos Pena!

by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 9, 2007 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

You're right
But the Hudson-Zito-Mulder trio as well as Giambi-Tejada-Chavez grouping was formed in part because of good arbitration management.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 9, 2007 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Worked for COL, CLE, ARI, and BOS
All of the final four playoff relied heavily on player development and players with less than 6 years experience.  Cleveland is the model organization, with Colorado and Arizona following Cleveland's lead.

The Red Sox?  Yup.  They were built mainly through the draft (Papelbon, Youkillis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz), trades using Sox prospects (Beckett, Lowell, Schilling, Crisp), cheap free agent signings (Ortiz, Okajima), and trades for a prospect (Varitek).  Of the four big money free agents (Ramirez, Matsuzaka, Drew, and Lugo), only Ramirez is a true success story.

The Rays are Cleveland two or three years ago.  Player development and arbitration control are the keys to avoiding mediocrity and 81-81 seasons.

by G_ on Nov 9, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That is the gist
They had the audacity to do it.  Fine, I can respect them because they had guts either way.  They have to know there is an element of civic pride like guys like Patrick and myself have.  Anyone can look like the Padres and the Mariners and be unoriginal.  Heck, the cap is classic, fine.

But the logo absolutely blows, period and the uniforms and what they represent are oxymoronic and I am insulted.  RJ, you don't have to apologize for anything.  I just want to see how far I can go.  Sorry folks whoever reads this.  I am calling the hiearchy out on this, and an explanation and a well thought out explanation is not only warranted and deserved on that.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 7:19 PM EST reply actions  

The thought
They put up hundreds of thousands of dollars to come up with that.  I may go out of my way tomorrow evening to maybe make a "suggestion" to a player when I get off work explaining my displeasure and maybe getting that player's opinion.

This was a gutless move that is par for what they are.  These men aren't risk takers.  They are deliberate and think they can be everything to everyone.  In a way, the uniform matches the baseball philosophy.  Take no risks and be everything.  Stay young all the time.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 7:22 PM EST reply actions  

Clever
You have a funny way of diffusing my anger:)

All kidding aside, I am going after Stu, Andrew, Matt, Darcy and I am letting you know that all in front.  I will be respectful and polite, but I want to know for my own benefit.  This is personal for me, because my own love of this area is personal.  Go to the other blogs right now and I am not alone on this.  Its a sad day for this community and I will not rest until I am acknowledged.  I will respect the site and comment and not be mean at all, but I have to let you know I am going to go out on my own on this.

I know I am not alone on this site either about this topic.  Are the uniforms more "classic"?  In a way, yes, but they look like Baseball Player 101 except with that sunburst combined with the fish.  I give them credits for having guts to execute but negative points for the lack of understanding of civic pride.  Now I am going to do what I have to do.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 7:34 PM EST reply actions  

I believe they're referring to the burst as a
Glint and promoting the significance and energy that it represents.

Of course that likely just adds fuel to your fire, but I figured I'd pass it along.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 8, 2007 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: I believe they're referring to the burst as a
Actually you just added to my argument as well as fuel.  You are helping make my point.  I know you read the press release and its hokey.  I love the San Diego Padres but if I wanted to root for them, I would go out to La Jolla and cheer them on and party out at the Gas Lamp!!!

Well done, RJ:)

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Or Gaslight Park tomorrow night
Honestly, I don't care what we wear within reason as long as we win; that's all it's about in the end.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 8, 2007 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
They looked great in person and the hats are superb.

by sattp on Nov 8, 2007 8:03 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I was upset at first when i saw the illustrations that were leaked.  However, these new uni's look great.  I like the color scheme, and the rays shirts look really cool.  I say good job overall, the "rays" on the away uni's is not really that big of a deal.  I mean, who in the world isn't going to know they are from tampa bay??  Just because it says "orioles" on their away jerseys, that doesn't mean people are going to think they might be from bismark and not baltimore.  People just need to get a grip and get over it.

by usfraysfan on Nov 8, 2007 8:19 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
After seeing them in person I have to admit they look a lot better in person than in those mock-ups from a few months ago. And take note-- the well-crafted shadowing and outlining is made PERFECTLY for HDTV.

Now let's stop arguing about "Tampa Bay" or no "Tampa Bay" on the unis. Remember the "TB" on the cap stands for "Tampa Bay" and not "tuberculosis".

If you want to hold the NDRO accountable for something, hold them accountable for the bodies they put in the unis. They look nice, but you're merely polishing a turd if this team ends up with 66 wins at the end of September and you keep preaching about the "exciting young nucleus".

Matt Sammon, draysbay columnist and professional bump on a log

by Matt Sammon on Nov 8, 2007 8:29 PM EST reply actions  

They look a lot better as a three dimensional uni
I will say that. I might even go so far as to say that they look nice. But the only real outstanding issue is the road jersey, and I'm sorry but there really isn't any reason for us not to follow in the footsteps of the other 26 teams that represent their home area on the road. You mention the caps, but the detail on the caps pales in comparison to that of a jersey front on the set. That the team would leave out their home area on the road jerseys in indefensible, IMO, I just don't see any reason for it. The team doesn't become more inclusive of other areas by doing it, but they do make a conspicuous attempt to shun their home area by not doing it.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Nov 8, 2007 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I don't know dude

The Tuberculosis Rays sounds pretty good.....

by Flabull on Nov 8, 2007 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
Agreed.  That is what its all about, and I agree with that.
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments perfect
That is true.  I said what I said.  You are correct
Joe

by joedobr on Nov 8, 2007 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
Polishing a turd??? Nice...just Nice

by Elgrandeplatano on Nov 9, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I'll miss the old uniforms and colors. I liked the originality of them. Whether the new uniforms are an improvement over the old is debatable, they are very classy though. I really like them and can't wait to purchase a new hat.

Personally, I'm fine with the lack of "Tampa Bay" on the uniforms. The TB on the cap represents the region just fine.

by floridaroar on Nov 8, 2007 9:24 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I like the colors and the hat, but it the uni's are a little plain. It looks like we are sponsored by Ray's TV Repair or Ray's Crab Shack. If it will put more butts in seats I am all for it though. I want baseball to be successful in Tampa Bay.

by TBfisherman on Nov 8, 2007 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

Symbolism
I hope the same thing happens to the Rays that happened to the Bucs when they changed the unis. The hat is classic, but the uni is bland. Which may be where this team is headed (good players, but as a whole nothing special). And no "TB" or "Tampa Bay" on the jersey means a lot. At least the Bucs have two very unique logos (the pirate ship as The Jose Gaspar and the "flag" actually was used on a Gaspar book).

As for the ballclub, the management has to understand that the average baseball fan in town needs to be convinced Joe Maddon is the right guy. We've all seen or heard of the talent in Durham and Montgomery, but I fear an idiot is at the controls. Hopefully I'm really wrong.

by mlmintampa on Nov 8, 2007 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

Joe Maddon isn't at the controls
I'm not sure if you've read Moneyball, but I think we have (or perhaps should have) a similar situation here. Not a knock on Joe since I find him intriguing, but I'm in the belief that managers should be baby sitters.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 8, 2007 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Joe Maddon isn't at the controls
Of course that book was written by a GM with a notorious "esteem" for the managerial profession.

He knows where the credit is due - the answer's in his shaving mirror every day. Curious he won't plant his own butt in the dugout - that would make it harder to point at others to blame, however.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 9, 2007 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I am just tired of spending all of our money on stuff that does not improve the team. The Bucs would have done jsut as well with out the Uni change. All the pieces were set for it, just like us. All the improvements to the trop were stupid moves. The video board, changing the outfield walls from the leaves, the latin american academy. We don't need that crap right now. That can all come later when we are making money from a winner.

Spend some money to put a winning team on the field

by Elgrandeplatano on Nov 9, 2007 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
The team finally is headed in a positive direction and people are ripping the ownership for it. I don't get it.

The Latin American Academy gives the Rays a presence where it had none. I may be mistaken but I think the Rays were the only team lacking Latin American scouting. That's just shameful for a league where Latin American players are so prevalent. The Rays will be better for this in the long run.

Improvements to the Trop may mean nothing to the hardcore fan, but it makes the experience nicer for families, thus increasing revenue, thus giving the organization more money to spend down the road. Also, no one wants to play in a dump.

The uniform change was not necessary but it will increase revenues and may have a small psychological effect on the players.

The more revenue you have the more likely you'll be able to sign big name free agents while locking up key pieces to the team's future. Throwing money at names with no solid plan to increase revenue is a recipe for failure.

Back in the 80's every player in the NFL wanted to be a San Francisco 49'er. The team exuded class from top to bottom and it translated to wins on the field. They stayed in 5 star hotels and flew on private jets. Their clubhouse was state-of-the-art. Act like a winner, look like a winner, be a winner. Don't get me wrong, talent has a lot to do with it but it's not the whole equation.

by floridaroar on Nov 9, 2007 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
Thank you, thank you, thank you floridaroar. There is lots more to do, but can we please focus on the important stuff and avoid paranoid rumors and petty complaints. What you say is absolutely true and there is much more besides to promote optimism.

by bobr on Nov 9, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
What direction is that? we knew bullpen was a weakness going into last year and they did nothing, we knew starting pitching was an issue and still nothing, we had Ben Zobrist as our starting SS (and most likely will this season) and Greg Norton as our back up everything. And Pena? he would never have touched the field in Tampa if Norton didn't get hurt...

Maybe I have been listening to Mick to much, but while some of his stuff is down right retarded, he has substance bitching about the payroll. 33 million in revenue sharing and what? 28 million in payroll?

by Elgrandeplatano on Nov 9, 2007 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
I will not go into all the elements of the Rays' efforts again; I have reviewed it so often in so many places that I am utterly exhausted explaining the obvious to anyone who will look.

But once more, and for the umpteenth time, people need to be factual in what they say. It is nonsense that the Rays did nothing about the bullpen going into 2007-total and absolute nonsense obvious by simply reading names.

Between 2006 and 2007, there were only 3 of 7 relievers returned to the roles they had played the previous year. Those 3 were Camp, Salas and Lugo, (and even Salas was intially expected to take a more critical role) and in all 3 cases their 2006 campaign more than justified their return. So 4 members of the bullpen were either new altogether or placed in a new role. (Stokes) And additionally, other major league ready pitchers such as Dohmann were acquired for the AAA team as backups.

Now, you may think their choices were wrong. It is incontrovertible that it did not work-although equally incontrovertible that the Rays then continued to overhaul the bullpen. You may think it would have been wise to spend more money on relievers during the off-season. (I disagree, but recognize there are arguments both ways.) But it is absolutely untrue to say "they did nothing". They did quite a lot, and the implication that they were either too stupid, too lazy or too whatever is invalid. As for implying they were too cheap, that discounts other possible reasons-again too numerous and too often discussed-for their decision to take the route they did.

In any case, there is a huge difference between saying they did nothing and saying they did the wrong thing. If you want to argue they did the wrong thing, that is a point we have often discussed here and is legitimate to argue. But adding Reyes, Glover & Ryu to the bullpen and moving Stokes into relief was emphatically not doing nothing.

by bobr on Nov 9, 2007 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: The pen
Bob, you and I have gone round on this issue too many times to count.

You are correct, they did take action. And those actions largely did not work. The holdovers plus the shifted Stokes had mostly horrific seasons - except Salas. Reyes was a decent re-acquisition (he finished '06 rehabbing in Durham), Glover was mediocre, Ryu a non-factor, Dohmann contributed in 2nd 1/2 after not making the team in spring. Fossum bombed before and after shifting roles. And forgotten above holdover Switzer was hurt or plain ineffective in the lefty role most think is important, particularly in the AL East. They did try to adjust midseason, with their big (in relative salary)acquistion of Wheeler, who performed worse in Tampa than he had in a mediocre season for Houston. And don't forget, he was acquired by trading a somewhat higher paid Wigginton.

There could be alternative explanations for the organization's motivation for each action. But the simple fact is that every acquistion was a low risk one financially. Perhaps they couldn't get the alternatives despite trying. Perhaps they feel they can acquire pen keys when really needed (Reyes is certainly no long term solution).

The contrary point is what's wrong with spending some, even a little too much, to improve now and hopefully in the future. The Baltimore approach has been overused, but had the Rays thrown the same dollars at the 2 most sensible if somewhat pricey acquisitions (Bradford and Walker - Baez was off the charts lunacy, and the cheap Williamson didn't pan out) who clearly didn't care about immediate contention the cellar may well have been avoided and things would be looking just that much more up today. Put 2 80 appearance guys with sub 3.50 ERA's in front of Reyes in your pen, and subtract them from Baltimore's, at a price that would have left the payroll still well below '06, well that 70 win plateau might well have been reached. Now that would have made for 1 great day in the park.  

by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 10, 2007 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
So in my mind, and that of many others, what's obvious in the past and today is an aversion to any kind of financial risk. They'll take action, but not bold, expensive action.

Will that change when the young core comes together? Perhaps. But statements like 20% payroll increases for 2008 - stated so as to magnify what's in fact a miniscule dollar amount - don't bode well for the coming season. Checks don't say "+20%" - they have a dollar amount.

El Grande's point about revenue sharing - a drum I've beaten too much here - is huge. Yes, they opened a Latin academy - it was paid for by revenue sharing captured at the expense of other teams. The DRO gets no credit in my book for it, even though it's a solid if belated strategic decision. And still leaves near $20 million this year alone not clearly dedicated to "improving the quality of the team on the field" as mandated by the Collective Bargaining agreement. No one here ever responds to this issue.

The simple fact is that in this sense, Murray Chass is right. Major League baseball would be healthier financially without the cash drain of the 2 Florida franchises. You're not the only guilty parties, but a strong argument can be made that you're the worst offenders in recent years. I believe teams must be allowed to take your development approach - it is a sound strategy for long term competitiveness. I just don't believe the other franchises should have to subsidize that choice.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Nov 10, 2007 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No offense
But Murray Chass can blow me.

I made a post about the whole revenue sharing thing and yes the org is making a ton of money, but in reality I think we can add 15 million in payroll for next year (40-45 million) and come in third place.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
We have indeed gone at this often. And again I reiterate that the issue is not if they will spend but when. Last year was not the time to spend on relievers, not when other issues had to be addressed, one of which was to determine whether the solutions on hand were adequate. They were not; now the Rays have to decide how to deal with it. Obviously they began the process during the year.

I reiterate also that nobody can dispute that what the Rays did failed to work out. But again, that is very different-significantly different-from saying they did nothing. And equating "doing something" with "spending money on name relievers" is invalid. It is also invalid after the fact to say these are the relievers they should have spent money on.We need not review again the differing views on the predictability of relievers' performances from year to year.

As for the Academy, it is not belated. It was done by this group in its second year in charge. The conflating of the Sternberg actions with those of Naimoli is one of the more insidious errors that many fans make.

I am not a fan of artificially trying to create parity* in the majors either with revenue sharing, salary caps, payroll taxes or other methods, but that is the system worked out. I do not have the entire Rays' budget at hand; I do not know exactly how they spend or do not spend money. But I do see them expanding in many areas and accumulating talent in a prudent and intelligent manner. I do not think 2 years of low payrolls demonstrate anything except that the Rays plan is to develop talent internally first, and evaluate it before spending outside the system. That is very sensible to me.

*Actually, I dislike the idea of parity itself.

by bobr on Nov 10, 2007 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Oh My...
Look at the Bulls, I have held bulls season tickets since the beginning. They never opened the upper deck till this year (they might have for Louisville two years ago, I am not sure) now students are camping for tickets and they are selling out.

If you build a winner, and become expected to win the revenue will come. I never said we don't need an academy, I said we don't need one right now. It is frustrating because we are this close to being a contender (even going into last season) and they pour money else where. I belive we got more money in revenue sharing than our pay roll was. There is no excuse for that.

It would be irresponsible for me to go purchase a high def tv tomorrow when I have credit card debt and only make a shade over 20,000 a year. The rays are making unnecessary purchases (video board?) and could increase revenue by just fielding a winner. We have seen it with 3 sports in this area in the last 10 years.

by Elgrandeplatano on Nov 9, 2007 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

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