Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 9, 2007 5:04 PM EST

There's been a lot of buzz about the Rays moving since they took the Tampa Bay type off their road unis, how about we put those to rest now...Per the Times:

ST. PETERSBURG - The Tampa Bay Rays are planning a $450-million stadium on the downtown St. Petersburg waterfront site of Al Lang Field.

The 35,000-seat stadium largely would be paid for by the team, which expects to contribute $150-million as well as the proceeds of the sale of development rights to Tropicana Field. The team hopes to attract a private developer to build a large retail/residential complex at the Tropicana Field site. The team also would seek as much as $60-million in future state sales-tax revenues, which would require approval by the Legislature.

Largely paid for by the team? That's excellent. New stadium? Awesome. Apparently it would be built where Al Lang is and balls hit over the right field wall would have a "splash landing" like San Francisco. Carlos Pena heaven. Speaking of splashes, new unis, new stadium, this off-season is going to be fun after all, nicely done Rays, nicely done, now let's upgrade the team.

[editor's note, by R.J. Anderson] For those wondering I believe Tropicana would also hold the naming rights for any new stadium; at the moment they pay 1.5 million per year on a contract that extends through 2026.

Contrary to reports, Rays owner Stuart Sternberg says the Rays are not seeking to build a new stadium.
In a statement released tonight, Sternberg denied reports the team were discussing plans to build a new stadium at the site of Progress Energy Park.
''First and foremost, as Stuart Sternberg has said repeatedly, we will not demand a new stadium,'' the statement said.
''Secondly, Stuart has said on numerous occasions that Tropicana Field will not be a viable facility by the end of our lease term.
''We are excited about these potential developments and the all of benefits that they would bring to our community. Anything we do would certainly involve significant public input in all aspects of process.''

The comments don't really add up to me, but we'll see if anything comes of it.

Maybe so:

Team, state and city officials declined to discuss the project. Asked at Thursday's uniform unveiling about a new waterfront stadium, Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg said: "If it can get done, I'm open to it." At a hastily arranged news conference Friday night, Rays team president Matt Silverman confirmed they were going ahead with the project. "We are excited about the possibilities of these projects, and the economic benefits that they would bring to our community,'' Silverman said. "We would certainly involve the public in any process related to this.''

Basically it's the Trib saying the club is denying reports versus Topkin and the Times saying they're going through with it; through my experiences I'm going to give Topkin the benefit of the doubt.

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Comments

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

I just saw this RJ. This would be awesome. I really like this idea. i love that are and love the idea of home runs being hit into the water

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 9, 2007 5:10 PM EST reply actions

Also

Shows a commitment to the team and the area.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 9, 2007 5:16 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Also

I def agree.

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 9, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

Wow just wow......I had no idea this was even an option.

Thank god its staying in St. Pete and not that piece of crap Tampa with its welcome to Yankeeville B.S.

What are we talking do you guys think at best 2010? 2012?

by bpoe13 on Nov 9, 2007 5:51 PM EST reply actions

Depending on how far

Along they are in the process all ready I'm guessing 2010 would be opening day, but 2011 is more likely.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 9, 2007 5:56 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Depending on how far

ST. Pete Times said today that they are shooting for 2011. Matt Silverman held a press conference late last night to announce that the Rays were indeed coming up with this plan, so it has been confirmed by the Rays that they want to go through with this.

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 10, 2007 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

Well, I think it would be better in Tampa, the population of tampa is greater then in st.pete. theres alot of rays fan in tampa, but we dont want to spend all that gas money... sigh

and yankee and redsox fans will still overpower rays fans at least until we begin winning.... no matter if its in tampa or st. pete.

Sir pimp-a-lot

by Boricua on Nov 9, 2007 7:27 PM EST reply actions

Great Idea

But I think 2012 at the earliest for Opening Day. The St Pete Times Forum location would have been a great spot for a baseball stadium. FYI, the valet parking at Channel Side is always free if you go to Lightning games. There is always a sponsor (usually GMAC) paying for your parking.

www.bullsindex.com

by SeanDubbs on Nov 9, 2007 8:25 PM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

Wow! I wonder how many people will complain about the lack of Tampa bay on the uniforms now.

I want to see the stadium plans! Is it a dome? Open air? retractable roof? I hope beyond all hope they build something like the Ray shaped mock up they showed in the papers earlier this year.

by floridaroar on Nov 9, 2007 9:21 PM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seriously? Ray-shaped mock up???? link please?

by das411 on Nov 10, 2007 2:16 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

Took some Googleing but here's the link:
http://www.tbo.com/sports/special/raysstadium/

It's incredible, enjoy.

by floridaroar on Nov 10, 2007 9:10 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

That stadium would be sweet

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 10, 2007 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

Man oh man that is terrific!! MAJOR thanks for the link!

by das411 on Nov 11, 2007 2:28 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium

That remains a separate issue but I will refrain from any further criticism on that

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

Quotes from Stu in 2005

d hopefully I can say it and you'll follow up - you will not hear the words, "We need to have a new stadium,' " Sternberg told a group of Times editors. "We might like to have a new stadium. We can work with the authorities to have a new stadium and work with businesses to have a new stadium, but it won't be from a sense of "need.'

"I would expect it to be cooperative, and I think cooperative always works best. Now is it 90-10, or 10-90, or 50-50? You have to look at it and get a sense of where the benefit is coming and where it's going," he said. "We are not going to build a stadium at whatever point in time that comes to line our pockets. If it's necessary to do, and it will be necessary to do at some period of time, it will be done because it works for the community, it works for the area, it makes a lot of business sense and it makes a lot of sense for something that will create a lasting showpiece. "Even if we pay for the whole thing, it will be cooperative. But I don't anticipate us having the ability to ever pay for an entire stadium."

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 9, 2007 9:25 PM EST reply actions

Re: Quotes from Stu in 2005

On the surface, this looks good, but I think this was an attempt to steal a lot of press and buy a lot of positive press over the last 48 hours.

It will take a lot of hard work to build a half billion dollar facility. And in my opinion, it will take more commitment from Stuart's personal end to get it done. I don't think it can be less than a 50/50 deal.

I would also like to see more meat and potatoes rather than glittering generalities. I like what is being discussed and as a taxpayer, I am all for it, but I want to see more definite plans and more substance. I don't understand the contradictory nature of what has transpired tonight so I am going to refrain from further speculation.

Bottom line, it won't be easy. And this proves nothing. This is a conversation that was going to happen regardless and its not going to be an easy deal. I am on board with this, but I want to see more as well.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 9, 2007 10:03 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

good luck on the stadium thing. It took the Twins 10 years of arm twisting, but finally got something done. Can't wait for the 2010 season to watch baseball outdoors

by TwinsFanJim on Nov 9, 2007 10:41 PM EST reply actions

Having seen the early models

The Twins new park looks great.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Having seen the early models

Looks great, but when the playoffs come around they may be snowed out. There isn't a retractable roof is there?

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 10, 2007 10:21 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Having seen the early models

no retractable roof. It would of cost something like $300 mil more. The twins, being cheapskates they are, wont pay for that unless the State of Minneasota pays it. And the State didnt really want to give the moeny for this new stadium anyway (it passed on last second legislation...long back story there)

anyway, it might snow. The first snow date is mid October, but the last few year its been Thanksgiving and past when we get our first real snowfall. And temp the last few years have been in the 50s and 60s well into November

Spring might be a mess though. I dont know how many Opening Day Home Openers this new stadium will have. Lots of snow on the ground in April

by TwinsFanJim on Nov 12, 2007 11:19 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Sounds like they are going to copy the Giant's stadium. With the whole on the water thing, and being able to hit the ball into the water.
To bad there is no useable public transportation in Tampa, like there is in San Fransico.

by Jhattenburg on Nov 10, 2007 12:40 AM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

PSTA.....lol

by Elgrandeplatano on Nov 10, 2007 1:18 AM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Some items of interest in today's Tampa Tribune front page story:

Apparently, if you're not sitting in the suites, you won't have A/C (concourses don't count).....Tampa way too hot most of the year to tolerate this...

There's NO actual parking onsite.....you'd have to go to garages/lots offsite.....very inconvenient....

There's not enough room/land to build a retractable roof......conclusion: it's NOT a good site then!

They'd have to sell off the Trop site to raise money......one councilman said that the site has failed continually in the past as a site because it can't be turned into a regional center for some company because it's located on a peninsula.........ISN'T THIS ONE OF THE TROP'S BIGGEST PROBLEMS? poor accessibility to the larger population bases...

Conclusions:

This site is NOT doable or feasible. The Rays are attempting to look as though they TRIED to make it work in St.Pete, but COULDN'T. Then they'll move to I-4/I-75 corridor or elsewhere in Florida or out of state. Their uniforms specifically exclude the words "Tampa Bay" (except for the hats....which can be altered more easily) so that they can hedge their bets and move elsewhere.

tampadenis

by tampadenis on Nov 10, 2007 12:20 PM EST reply actions

Yes they left TB off the unis

So they can bolt, let's ignore that their lease won't be broken through 2027 unless it's to an inner Bay area location.

Seriously, people need to stop speculating that the team is leaving, it's not.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Yes they left TB off the unis

The Rays can move despite the lease......if they could show in court that the lease is an unreasonable financial burden to them. They would be sued, but probably would prevail/settle. My point about the unis is that they could keep their colors/name and still move...at least within Florida. The team name might have to change if they move out of state, but the colors could remain.

tampadenis

by tampadenis on Nov 10, 2007 1:05 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Yes they left TB off the unis

I have no doubts in my mind that Stu Sternberg wants it to work here. I believe he has a good heart and good intentions. After further thought, I do have some infrastructure questions about the site, the location and the specifics of the plan. There is no on site parking and I do not know the current status of the Mahaffey Theater and Bayfront Center site and other Bayboro Harbor tenants i.e. USF-St. Pete that is a neighbor right across the street.

However, in this current political climate, I fear I am in the minority that Pinellas taxpayers want to foot the bill for a new stadium. There is a lot of debt that has to be leveraged from the existing bonds and I would like to see the money flow. Regardless, I intend as a Pinellas voter to approve any new stadium referendum that may come about. However, I sense strong resevations from St. Pete City Council and I have no idea how Pinellas administrators feel about this.

I find it curious and somewhat interesting for all the talk that both Stu and Matt had in having a Tampa ballpark that they are doing this site in St. Pete. This may be an "exercise" but regardless, I am going to be interested in seeing what happens. Knowing all of the insurance problems, it will be difficult almost impossible to approve a 1/2 sales tax or to leverage other money. Stu may have to do a 50/50 split and that may still not be enough.

I give them credit for attempting to do it, but there are some key issues here deeper that people need to look at. I am still trying to reconcile the fact that although I am in North Pinellas myself, that it was their expressed intent to have any new facility in Tampa, as they feel there are more fans at any given time that they feel they can get. I know the lease is an issue.

It will be interesting and it won't be easy. Stay tuned!!

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Fascinating. From those who keep predicting that Sternberg intends to move the Rays, I would like to know a few things.

Is that what you would do if you owned the Rays? If not, then why assume he will? He is certainly not the only owner who is from another state than his team. If yes, then what's the problem? Of course he should if it is the right thing to do.
Do you know Sternberg personally so that you can provide insight into his psychology, motives or intentions based on conversations you have had with him over coffee or some beers or are intimate with his thought processes? If not, then nothing you say about them is credible and probably says more about your thought processes than his.
Aside from the worldly cynicism we may all have about things anyone says, including the dubious honesty of relatives, friends and neighbors, is there any reason to doubt Sternberg more than that normal caution we have about others' (and our own) integrity?
Given that Sternberg has repeatedly and emphatically said he has no intention of moving the team, that he intends not just to build a contender here but one that sustains its ability to compete for titles, that he has invested quite a bit of money into the Trop, that he has not demanded a new stadium immediately or threatened to move should he not get what he wants and that by word and deed he has actively sought to expand the fan base throughout the west coast and center of the state, can you name 3 things he has said and 3 things he has done that convince you he is lying or that he intends to move the team?

Now I am not talking about extrapolations from prejudices already held, such as "since it is impossible to build a proper stadium at Al Lang Field, it is a ploy to develop an excuse to move". I am not talking about conspiracy theories woven from supposed hints, or from some numerological divinations or predictions from Nostradamus. I am talking about specific and obvious things he has said and done, as specific and obvious as his stated intention to stay put.

I have no illusions about any baseball owner, or for that matter anyone at all not seeking the best chance to improve profits nor about their willingness to lie in public or obfuscate the truth. But that would apply to the owners in every city, and indeed, if the Rays do not begin to compete and fans therefore do not come out, I expect Sternberg will look for other pastures. He would be stupid not too, and he is not stupid. But barring clear evidence that he intends to exploit the game's structure and then move on, I see no reason to assume he wants to do anything but make the Rays a success in this area.

by bobr on Nov 10, 2007 3:35 PM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

great post Bob

http://tampabaysportsfanatic.blogspot.com/

by tampabaysportsfanatic on Nov 10, 2007 3:53 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

I don't think they intend to move, but they are deliberately trying to become more of a regional/state club, catering/serving more people.

When I personally disagree with Stu over some philosophy and personal arrogance, as well as tactics, I do believe in my heart of hearts he wants to make it work. You also know more so than I that what and where does Stu want to do it. I would like to see more detail, because parking and other concessions I would like to see before I go neck deep in full support. Now, I admit, I would unconditonally support any referendum or initiative, I think a man like Stu doesn't make mistakes. He does things with intent and purpose. Read into that thought however you may desire. He isn't stupid, and his acumen is undeniable, its some of his own great personal flaws is what I am doubting and questioning as he may not necessarily be seeing the forest beyond the trees.

Great post and solid opinion, Bob.

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

"I don't think they intend to move, but they are deliberately trying to become more of a regional/state club, catering/serving more people."

I'm not sure there's a problem with that, it's smart for business.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 6:11 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Then what's wrong by fully being Tampa Bay's club fully serving Tampa Bay? Smart yes, but geez, its like they are trying to get that 2% more harder than the 98 they need to have in the bank. I get the argument, and if they want to raise that flag, do it, but there are other ways to do it, i.e. cable network. agressive marketing, product enrichment.

Is it a problem? Not really, but aren't they forsaking some of the key people in the middle?

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 6:23 PM EST up reply actions

Perhaps

But by giving out candy to 14 year olds now you can win their vote in four years.

And I'm noticing the first part of that analogy is going to sound really bad.

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 6:30 PM EST up reply actions

It sounds worse

When you consider that the people giving out "candy" in your analogy are politicians to begin with.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Nov 10, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

Larry Craig agrees

by R.J. Anderson on Nov 10, 2007 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Larry Craig agrees

I don't even want to know how you know that. :)

by floridaroar on Nov 10, 2007 10:09 PM EST up reply actions

So does.....

Mark Foley, Bob Allen, Gerry Studds, Dan Crane, Jim West, etc.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Nov 11, 2007 12:19 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Many teams are regional. St. Louis may be the best example, drawing support from a huge area. Boston is actually regional as well. You are right, R.J. That is a positive and if the Rays can achieve it, it would be great. Obviously, with the games in Orlando, moving the spring training to Port Charlotte and other efforts to spread the brand, that is the intent.

Ultimately, winning is what matters, but if the brand is out there, a winning team in St. Petersburg will be adopted by people all around the area as their team, and they will attend games and buy merchandise just as people throughout Kansas, Missouri and much further afield consider themselves Cardinals, while if the team remains parochial and too tightly focused on Tampa Bay, why should people outside the immediate area feel part of the winning?

by bobr on Nov 10, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

That process is natural and takes decades to build that loyalty. That is what I say you work from inside out, not outside in. That is the only thing I don't get is the "desperation" for a lack of better terms to be that regional entity. Its almost an obsession for them to have it very quickly. I say let it come naturally.

Moving the spring training is great, I don't quite get moving games to Orlando in the middle of the year, but that is them. I am NOT one of them, but when people in North Tampa, New Tampa and Brandon want more access and need more access, shouldn't they have first dibs? That is what I mean from inside out rather than outside in. Pinellas, Hillsborough and Pasco have 3 million inhabitants. I understand once again, maybe we can agree to disagree, but let the flow come naturally, not "forced" over time. Put your flag and say you are out there, but why forsake other potential consumers?

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

I see nothing in their efforts designed to forsake the Tampa Bay area. Nor do I see anything being forced. If anything, the danger is that areas outside Tampa Bay will consider themselves aliens to the team if while the team improves they are not being included as much as possible. Loyalty will be built by actively engaging people around the region, not by expecting them to feel pride in something that is outside their immediate entertainment sphere.

by bobr on Nov 10, 2007 6:50 PM EST reply actions

Let me put it a different way

How active and overt are the Buccaneers and Lightning pursue out of the immediate area fans? Its apples and oranges to compare different sports to a degree, yes, but the on the field/ice product is what sells.

That is kind of what I am getting at. In a sports realm, a majority of the marketing comes from pure winning, plain and simple. Fans won't come from Waldo or Deltona to watch a Rays/Royals or a Rays/Angels game if they don't know what they got. When I say "inside out", I mean shoring up and getting those fans in the immediate vicinity from Tarpon or Trinity or NPR or Saddlebrook, Sun City, you name it. I am all for a lot of the Rays initiatives, but there are other ways to get those consumers to you, rather than bringing it to the consumer.

Part of their brilliance is the subtle nature of their scheme. Not being sarcastic but I don't see the other sports franchises actively, overtly and almost desperately trying to get that fan from Ocala or Kissimmee to the Trop. Those fans that are outside of the immediate area will choose on the Rays own merits that it is indeed their choice as baseball fans. Deep down, I respect them for thinking out of the box, I really do, but why do I read of and hear local fans still complain of access? Not my problem, but is it that big of a deal?

A fair argument indeed, but I had wanted to qualify myself. I think there is some forsaking if the team is going to "barnstorm" in Orlando (which I disagree with), then shouldn't they barnstorm across the bay in Hillsborough for argument's sake?

Joe

by joedobr on Nov 10, 2007 11:20 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Rays Planning New Stadium (Or Maybe Not)

Just when I thought it would be safe to come out of hiding. All the sideshow distractions are over.. no blog mudslinging, the uniform thing is over, but wait, now this.. this certainly won't stir any controversy or conspiracy theories. Nevermind, too late.

I spent a week in Orlando and a week in Tampa/St. Pete in August, my first time back in a long while. A month later, I spent some time in Phoenix. Granted, it was a very short time period, however it provided for an interesting compare/contrast between the two expansion partners. The Rays share a lot more similarities with the D'Backs than I realized. I've never really doubted it, but I'm more confident now than ever before that the Rays can and will succeed in Tampa/St. Pete. A new stadium would be nice too, just as long as it's not as ugly on the outside as the misplaced football stadium in Phoenix (Glendale). Almost as frightening to look at as the Trop.

by RATW on Nov 10, 2007 11:14 PM EST reply actions