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Around SBN: Can Tebow Say No To Anything?

Southpaw Galore

From Lancaster / The Trib:

Though the Rays filled three frontline positions this week by signing Percival and trading for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett, they still have work to do. Friedman said adding a left-handed bat "is a priority" and the Rays would prefer to acquire someone with positional flexibility - someone capable of playing right field and first base, for instance.

The Rays also could use a left-handed reliever and have had discussions with Ron Mahay that likely will continue at the winter meetings. Jeremy Affeldt is another southpaw who may be of interest.

All of that adds up to Darin Erstad, Ryan Klesko, or Mike Lamb; otherwise Tony Clark is a first baseman / designated hitter type only and Geoff Jenkins is an outfielder by trait.

As for the lefty reliever, nice to see Mahay is still in discussions, but there's probably a trade market out there for LOOGYs, I suppose stealing two relievers from the Yankees couldn't hurt though.

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Re: Southpaw Galore
I say Chico in Washington, for a reliever.
Let's Go Rays!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 1, 2007 1:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I think Branyan would be a nice left-handed pinch-hitter/spot starter, and Eric Hinske has some flexibility and a left-handed bat.

by raysrule07 on Dec 1, 2007 3:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Klesko or Hinske would be my choice for the Lefty hitter and Mahay for the LOOGY.
SC raysfan

by SC raysfan on Dec 1, 2007 7:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Do we think Brad Wilkerson is through as a productive player or might he be a worthwhile possibility. He has actually played 229 major league games at 1B, is a good outfielder and hit 20 home runs last year with an OPS+ of 104. He will be just 31 in June.

On the other hand, he earned $4.35 million last year and may command even more on the market and possibly more than 2 years. And an anomaly is that both last year and in his career his splits show him far better against lefties than righties, except for his home runs.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 8:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I knew I was forgetting someone, and I was just discussing him with my son.

What about Cliff Floyd who can DH and play both RF and 1B? Injuries or not, this is a man who can hit. He was scheduled to receive $5 million from the Cubs, but they bought out his option.

He will be 35. Since 2001 he has gotten 520, 550 and 555 ABs in 3 different seasons, last in 2005, so he does play, and he does hit. The last 2 years he has played considerably less, although he was better in 2007. With time at DH, he might be able to contribute more regularly.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 9:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Cliff Floyd is worth looking into
Again with the caveat about price and him being worth the risk.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 1, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I would really love Wilkerson or Hinske.  Hinske needs ABs to stay productive though.  Those are ideal candidates as far as I am concerned.
Joe

by joedobr on Dec 1, 2007 9:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Wilkerson would not be a bad option at all
Hinske? I'll take a pass. .770 career OPS at 1B/DH? That's awful. He has only had one good season outside of his rookie year, and I don't think he is better than the options we have on-hand.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 1, 2007 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Another thought. I know the aim is to get a lefty bat, but what about pursuing Carlos Quentin? His value is way down, but that does not mean he will not develop. And there seems to be no place to him in Arizona's outfield with Byrnes, Young and Upton set and no DH. They are looking for pitching. Perhaps there is a match.

If so, we have our RF and need only seek a lefty bat for DH or 4th outfielder.

Just to scare some people, don't be surprised if the lefty bat flexible enough to play RF or 1B and DH is Gregory Blakemoor Norton, a 35 year old utility player who hit .277/.374/.387 in the second half last year coming off an injury that marred his first half and .296/.374/.520 with 17 home runs the year before.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 9:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Another ideal low service time tons of arbitration player.  It will cost a lot Bob to get him, probably one of the pitching prizes in the system and he is not wasted as far as "elite prospect" status.  He would also be a starting player, and I am unsure if the Rays would fork over the RF spot to him unconditionally.

I want NO part of Norton, period.  Injury prone and just didn't provide a lot of spark, in my own opinion.

Joe

by joedobr on Dec 1, 2007 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I wouldn't mind taking a risk on Floyd or Wilkerson, who both could be bargains due to injury concerns.  The biggest downside is they both could challenge Baldelli for the team lead in time spent on the DL.

by RATW on Dec 1, 2007 12:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take a pass on Norton
He's old and his second half numbers last year are still mediocre for a first baseman/DH type. Quentin I like a lot, and wouldn't be a bad guy to go after.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 1, 2007 5:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I think if they acquired him he would be the right fielder. Nothing is unconditional, but barring total failure, I think he would get a full chance to prove himself. And I am not sure he is that far behind Delmon as a prospect. In some ways, plate discipline and home run stroke, he might be better.

You are probably right about it needing serious talent to get him, but you never know how others evaluate. He is now the 4th outfielder at best, he had a miserable year, they need pitching and seemed to sour on him last year. (Was he injured?)

In my ideal scenario, the Rays acquire Quentin for some combination of pitchers like Hammel, Jackson, Howell, Talbot, Mason and (sigh, sigh) maybe Sonnanstine. Unlikely? Yes. But I am not sure it is not doable. And then we sign Floyd to a one or two year contract, perhaps with team options and appearance incentives. He got $3 million in 2007 and was due $5 million in 2008 had the Cubs not bought out the option, so the money seems doable also.

I know the consensus on Norton, but he is a player who can serve. Actually, he is known as an excellent clubhouse player. And while the power numbers look bad in 2007, they were fine in 2006 and his other numbers, once he regained strength after the injury recovery (I am speculating of course) were not bad at all. I don't recall him being especially fragile, apparently he likes playing her and he provides flexibility. He is certainly not my preference, but I would not be surprised, nor were all other options gone, overly critical, should the Rays re-sign him.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 10:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Quentin was injured (he was on my fantasy team), had ROY written all over him at the beginning of the year.  He is an intriguing option just as the trade last year that had Barfield going for Kouzmanoff, similar status type of deal.
Joe

by joedobr on Dec 1, 2007 6:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Quentin...
I love the idea of Quentin in theory, he was a huge prospect and the whole nonsense, but numbers say no.  I know "buy low", but I'd rather just hand RF to Ruggiano...  Hasn't he paid his dues?  He is 26,his numbers are always very good...  He does have a high K rate, but his overall numbers have always been good.  Save the money,and prospects and give the kid a shot...

by nittsallgood on Dec 1, 2007 11:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I don't think a team can decide who plays based on "paying dues". It has to be on who gives the best chance to win. I am not certain Ruggiano is inadequate, but that high K rate combined with moderate power does not bode well. Again, this is not because strikeouts themselves are ordinarily worse than other outs, but because minor leaguers (and Ruggiano is already 25) who whiff so much are often carved up by major league pitching.

I do not like the idea that the Rays may be banking on 4 players, all of whom are so unlikely to succeed, for 2 positions. In a best case situation, the Rays can now say they have 4 plus hitters in the lineup (Pena, Longoria, Crawford and Upton) and 3 adequate hitters (Iwamura, Bartlett and Navarro). Maybe I am selling Iwamura a bit short, but overall, if everyone plays as well as we can reasonably expect, that is the reality of the offense. I do not think the Rays can afford 2 more spots given over to black holes or sub-par hitters. That would be 5 of 9 spots with merely adequate or poor hitters.

Last year I might have agreed to risk giving Ruggiano his chance, but the Rays are in a new phase of their cycle, and it is now time to fill positions with more certain talent. Let him make the roster as a 4th outfielder and if the opportunity arises prove himself. But the Rays should not be handing a job to someone so iffy. I shuddered at a blurb I saw indicating they may be close to signing Erstad, a dreadful hitter. The Rays need to find someone they can depend on to play right field and contribute to the offense.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 11:39 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
I've added some insight to this on my blog. I think we should keep Ruggiano, but I added some thinking into the subject. And after looking at Mahay's 10-year stats, he's clearly better than Burkins and Affeldt.
My Blog. Check it out if you wish.

by Cory Alexander on Dec 1, 2007 12:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's evident
Affeldt may return to starting, we need to stay the hell away from that disaster.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 1, 2007 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: That's evident
You got that right. I looked at his stats, and he's been consistently over a 5ERA his whole career, except last year. I really want Ron Mahay more than anything.
My Blog. Check it out if you wish.

by Cory Alexander on Dec 1, 2007 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: That's evident
I've been reading that the Yankees are hot after Mahay (assuming that he turns down the Braves' offer of arbitration, which is probably). We did beat out the Yankees for Percival, but I think Mahay is a different story. If they want him, my guess is he either ends up in NY or is much too expensive for us to consider-to rephrase, much to expensive to be worth consideration.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 1:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Didn't Texas just offer Mahay salary arbitrati
Atlanta did. He was part of Teixeira trade. They offered it to him but not Andruw Jones. From what I have read, he will refuse it because he thinks he can get a good 3 year contract which, to me, should eliminate the Rays.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 6:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bobr...
and you think Quentin is the answer?  What in his prior major league experience makes you think he is in your quote above "certain talent".  I am sorry, but Quentin's .230 career major league avg. doesn't make me want to give up any prospects at all.  Sure, he was a bigger prospect, but that's all he is. I wouldn't even just hand him the RF job.  If Baldelli is healthy, he should get 1st crack.  I doubt that we will ever really be "healthy" enough to depend on.  I do however like the Cliff Floyd thought above.  He always hits...  

by nittsallgood on Dec 1, 2007 12:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
A very fair question, nittsallgood, and I agree that the phrase "certain talent" is an overstatement-although I did say "more certain talent" which I do think is legitimate if comparing Quentin to Ruggiano.

My answer is that he is also a question mark, but in his first appearance in the majors, he hit pretty well. In 2006, as a 23 year old, he got 166 ABs and had a line of .253/.342/.530 with 13 doubles and 9 home runs. That is a promising debut.

In 2007, he slumped terribly, although I think there was some injury issue. (Of that I am not certain.) Overall, his minor league numbers, even conceding they were accumulated in the PCL, were extraordinary. His overall minor league line is .312/.427/.526 with 55 home runs and 103 doubles in 1337 ABs. Ruggiano's numbers are close, although not quite so good, and some of his were accumulated in tougher hitter's environments. But balancing that are two factors. One, Quentin began in high A ball as a 21 year old while Ruggiano started his career in rookie ball at age 22. And second, while Ruggiano struck out every 3.2 ABs at AAA ball, Quentin only did it every 6.5 ABs in AAA. I do not mean to obsess over the strikeouts, but I do not think we can ignore them in assessing Ruggiano's chances.

Finally, while Ruggiano was never perceived as a top prospect and became a throw-in in a trade (much to Friedman's credit, of course), Quentin has consistently been ranked as a top prospect. While hardly conclusive, it is another mark in his favor. In 2006, Baseball America ranked him as the 20th best prospect in the entire minor leagues while Ruggiano does not appear in the top 100 list at all.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 1:26 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
With the numbers being "so close", the only thing that you are staking your need for Quentin is his Baseball America stroke?  How many times have the "experts" failed?  I could understand if the minor league stats were vastly different, but they are not.  I am a numbers guy, and the numbers say Quentin is vastly over rated... and that Ruggi is vastly under-rated.  And I certainly would not give anyone away to get someone who may or may not be better than what we have now...  Now I agree that we shouldn't just give the RF job to Ruggi, but I believe he should have the oppurtunity to compete for it...  Now if we can get Quentin for players we don't necessarily need like Howell or Hammel, I might change my mind. BUt I certainly wouldn't give them Jackson or Sonnanstine, or any of the young studs we have coming up...

by nittsallgood on Dec 1, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Southpaw Galore
Well, I think I offered a bit more than simply BA strokes, but in the end there is some subjectivity in all of it. I would love to see the Rays investigate the possibility to determine whether there really is an advantage to be gained. Since I have never seen either player (I do not recall ever seeing Quentin on TV), I can only judge by the numbers and other factors like age and reputation, and in my view Quentin seems a far more likely candidate for stardom and at least adequacy than Ruggiano. But I certainly respect your view that such an evaluation is still tenuous at best.

I also agree that Ruggiano has perhaps been underrated a bit (the Ks still bother me a lot) but do not think Quentin's numbers suggest anything other than a star, so I don't consider him overrated. As for a trade, I absolutely agree that the Rays should not cede a young stud or someone who is integral to our near future, but for pitchers in the Hammel/Howell category I think it would be an excellent move. I would be less enthusiastic were Sonnanstine involved but could be persuaded given our depth of rotation prospects. Jackson I would have no problem giving up in a Quentin deal.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What does everyone think
of Nate McLouth?  He could be available, and we may even be able to expand the deal to include Damaso Marte.  Jake at BuccoBlog doesn't think much of McLouth, but I think he could do well in a platoon with Ruggiano.  Does anyone know Ruggiano splits vs lefties and righties?

by raysrule07 on Dec 1, 2007 2:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: What does everyone think
.915 OPS v. RHP
.749 OPS v. LHP

Obviously Erstad doesn't match up well with him.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 1, 2007 2:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: What does everyone think
McLouth can steal bases and in some years walked a bit, but has little power for a right fielder and as far as I can tell not much of a split against right handed pitchers in the majors. (.250/.322/.433 vs. RH; .241/.323/.416 vs. LH).

The player I wanted to get from the Pirates earlier in the year was Ian Snell, but I think that is no longer possible. I would not give up too much for McLouth even if Marte came along. Part of that is my aversion to pitchers, especially relievers, who walk a lot of batters. Marte has had some terrific years, including 2007, but at this point I do not see the Rays trading much to get even a lefty reliever.

by bobr on Dec 1, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Sean Casey?
He's a free Agent who can play a very good defensive 1B and is solid left-handed hitter. Not much power but has a knack to get on base.

Career:
.301 AVG
.366 OBP
.996 FP

by floridaroar on Dec 1, 2007 4:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hell no
Got exorbitant money from Detroit and was worse than Norton last year. He has posted OPSs of .795, .724, and .746 in the last three years; that is horrible for most any position, much less a first base/DH type. Just say no.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 1, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Hell no
Yeah, I got to watch Casey a lot w/ the Reds before he went to Detroit and while he is a great character guy, he chokes a lot in pressure situations and when he does get on he completely bogs down the basepaths. He's S-L-O-O-O-O-O-O-W.

by fogelberg on Dec 1, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What about...
HEE-SEOP CHOI???

by das411 on Dec 2, 2007 2:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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