Unlawful

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 17, 2007 11:03 PM EST

I often avoid media topics around here, but sometimes I just can't help myself. As many of you know the Baseball Writers Association of America votes for the awards and hall of fame last week they added 16 "new members" and rejected two. Of course those two just happen to be two of the most qualified baseball writers in America - Keith Law and Rob Neyer, both from ESPN, but both amongst the more intelligent, logical, and generally enjoyable writers from the worldwide leader in sub par baseball analysts.

Of course it didn't stop there, yesterday Deadspin posted this; apparently Woody Paige of all people is a member of the BBWWAA and part of the reasoning for the lack of Law and Neyer was not attending enough games - essentially attending games must make writers smarter and clearly that's evident in this case, who doesn't find Paige more baseball savvy than Law and Neyer?

Now let's address Paige's statement: he'll vote for someone - despite them not being good - because he likes them as a person. Why do I get the feeling that attitude is commonplace amongst the folks voting for BBWAA induction as well?

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Re: Hi Definition

BBWAA hates the statistically minded folks. Neyer and Law scare them because the old school writers know that those two could make most of them look foolish inside five minutes.

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by UCFKnights on Dec 17, 2007 11:06 PM EST reply actions

Re: Hi Definition

Like the guy who kept A-Rod out of his top three in MVP voting?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 17, 2007 11:09 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Unlawful

The point of the "they don't attend enough games" reasoning wasn't to say that Neyer and Law don't know enough to be in the BBWAA. From Bob Dutton, president of the BBWAA:

"In any event, the information we received appears to be generally accurate. Rob said he attends very few big-league games. Keith admitted that he attended about 25-30 games although he said he expects to attend a lot more in 2008.

The board determined, with the best information available, that neither Rob nor Keith needed a credential. That became the board's recommendation.

Most of the criticism of this decision seems to argue that Rob and Keith know much more about baseball than many current members. That might be true. The issue, for us, is whether they need a credential to do their job."

by Overman42 on Dec 17, 2007 11:56 PM EST reply actions

Re: Unlawful

That's reasonable enough if the BBWAA was simply a press credential organization, but since it determines meaningful items outside of games I don't buy it.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2007 12:15 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Unlawful

The problem with Dutton's comments is that the games-played criterion was created on the fly. The board had no idea how many games I attended live, nor was there or is there any set minimum number of games a writer must attend to qualify. I have said publicly that I do not believe the board's claim that they spoke to someone at ESPN, but even if they did, the information they received was inaccurate.

by Keith Law on Dec 18, 2007 8:50 AM EST up reply actions

no Neyer pun too?

sigh, where to start...?

RJ, isn't being "amongst the more intelligent, logical, and generally enjoyable writers from the worldwide leader in sub par baseball analysts" kind of like being the oldest player on the Marlins, ie an achievement but not a particularly significant one?

and what on earth makes you think that BBWAA members read ESPN.com in the first place? Sounds to me like they're all busy, um, actually going to games...

by das411 on Dec 18, 2007 1:16 AM EST reply actions

Re: no Neyer pun too?

Well, being old has little correlation with talent, and Law / Neyer could get a job at BP just as easily.

BBWAA members don't read about baseball?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2007 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Unlawful

I love Klaw, I think he has some great insight. But Neyer? C'mon. The guy has no idea what is even going on in baseball half the time.

By the way, anyone see the Marlins 2008 team so far? Ouch.

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/17/2008-florida-marlins-all-about-youth/

by ET90210 on Dec 18, 2007 9:09 AM EST reply actions

Matt Treanor is veteran presence

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2007 9:54 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Matt Treanor is veteran presence

Justin Miller is exactly the guy I want influencing the pitching staff. The Marlins could have 300 tattoos as a staff before the season is over.

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by UCFKnights on Dec 18, 2007 10:27 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Matt Treanor is veteran presence

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2007 10:39 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Unlawful

Yes, because going to a game and watching it from the crappy view of the press box makes you more of an expert than the person sitting at home watching the game. I can see a pitcher opening up to quickly or a guy who is overstriding on TV a hell of a lot easier than some guy in the press box who is more focused on writing his story in the 7th inning than he is the game. The aristocracy of the whole thing is what annoys me the most. Internet-based writers are the brave ones because people can immediately comment on your work and everyone else gets to see it. Print columnists can do as they please and choose to ignore the emails that come in complaining about the topics and/or quality of the work.

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by UCFKnights on Dec 18, 2007 9:53 AM EST reply actions

Re: Unlawful

Oh God, something like this almost makes the Baseball Hall of Fame, and by extension any Hall of Fame a joke. THE WALLS ARE CRASHING IN!

retreats to Ty Cobb wing and sobs

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Dec 18, 2007 1:27 PM EST reply actions

Re: Unlawful

Don't get too close...

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2007 1:46 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Unlawful

Classic ex: of Neyer not knowing what is going on. He had not clue Roberts admitted his use earlier in the day. He is a baseball writer!!

Eddie (NY): Tell your ESPN colleagues to stop trying to discredit the Mitchell Report in every column, please. They are only discrediting their careers.

Rob Neyer: Honestly, I haven't been following everything my colleagues have been writing. It's funny, though; I'm generally anti-establishment, anti-authority and all the other cool anti-stuff. I'm certainly anti-politician. But the Mitchell Report strikes me as even-handed and as a measured response to an uncomfortable situation. No, maybe it wasn't fair to Brian Roberts. But most of these guys really did cheat, and break laws, and I can't defend them with any great enthusiasm.

by ET90210 on Dec 18, 2007 4:26 PM EST reply actions

Re: Unlawful

Generally chats begin at noon. That report came out a whole 18 minutes earlier. It's not at all inconceivable that he was working on whatever or reading over the questions or preparing some of his answers. Either way, it came out minutes before the chat. You cannot call him uniformed for that.

by Tyler on Dec 18, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions